Current Server Time: 19:53 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2021/12/04

Timezone: UTC


02:04
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
02:04
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
03:32
doom2
joined the channel
03:40
doom2
hello, i left a comment on your youtube video. I couldn't figure out how to add to the wiki sensor list, so I came here
03:42
doom2
i don't have any engineering ability to execute on ideas, and i know ideas are a dime a dozen...that being said I had a few ideas, probably with poor assumptions, but i figured i'd put it out there
03:44
vup
doom2: I think we disabled the wiki signup because we have been getting a lot of spam recently
03:44
doom2
i'm not sure competing with the sonys, reds, canons, blackmagics etc of the world in the pursuit of resolution and sharpness in apsc+ sized sensors is a high-value approach for the consumer enthusiast.
03:45
doom2
i think there might be an opportunity for builders and hobbyists in between the high end 5k s35 market and the iphone/pixel market
03:45
doom2
especially at a reasonable price point
03:46
vup
most of the team is located in EU timezones so you might not get a lot of replies at these times, but you can probably get some replies when people read up on the log in the (EU) morning
03:46
doom2
like the red screen on the komodo is a joke....why not just use commodity oled cellphone screens
03:46
doom2
no worries, i'm just dumping my ideas out, whether it falls on deaf ears or not is okay xD
03:46
vup
yeah go for it
03:47
vup
yeah we have been thinking about using something like cellphone screens (or for example ipad screens can also be had for relatively cheap), but the main worry there is availability
03:47
doom2
there are a lot of interesting ~1/2.5" sensors coming out now at cheap prices thanks to the automotive market
03:47
doom2
120db+ dynamic range
03:47
doom2
led flickering reduction
03:48
vup
also re smaller sensors, we have a smaller prototype that might be more suited in that direction: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/AXIOM_Micro
03:49
vup
there is a next generation of that on the way, that would gain some nice features, but the inability to buy the required chips has this kind of on the backburner
03:50
vup
if you have links / specific sensors you found pointers to them would be much appreciated
03:50
doom2
i joined a small funding round in a cool as f startup that's built and delivered self driving hardware..and their latest iteration uses an ON AR0231AT sensor
03:50
doom2
and the output from that thing is spectacular...it looks like film right out of the box
03:51
doom2
only 1208 so basically 1080...but it genuinely looks like film....now one can argue you can use a cheap sony imx sensor and do a bunch of fancy tricks, and filters, and film grain on top...that might also be an avanue
03:53
vup
is scrolling through the datasheet
03:53
doom2
but a $5k body/brain with hardware from almost a decade ago is a very tall ask for consumers when there are already Red komodos, canon c70s, and sony's ar systems out there
03:55
vup
yeah I think the ar0231at is something a lot more suite to the axiom micro
03:56
vup
actually the sensor we are using on that one at the moment (ar0330cm) uses the same interface as the ar0231at so it would be a relatively easy swap
03:57
vup
one of the great things about the cmv12k is the global shutter
03:57
vup
which seems to be really hard to find for cheaper
03:59
doom2
obviously a controversial opinion, but i'm not that sold on global shutters, or mega resolution...i think film-like dynamic range and quality of look is more important for photography and storytelling...but that's just my two cents
04:00
doom2
the ar0231at has a larger sensor and larger pixel pitch than that ar0330cm it seems
04:00
doom2
let me host a couple samples, only 10mbit though, i'll try to get more out of it....just started trying to learn how to program a few days ago -_-
04:01
doom2
also at 20fps with variable angle shutter angle for exposure
04:06
doom2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ub6ga0uejmz9ew5/night2.mp4?dl=0
04:07
doom2
keep in mind this is behind dirty automotive glass with internal reflections...only 10mbit, 20fps etc...actually it isn't well containorized...i put it into an mp4, but vlc will default to playing it at 25fps
04:18
vup
wow yeah that looks pretty decent
04:20
doom2
i'd imagine at 30mbit something closer to bluray 1080p 264...cleaning up the compression blocks, it would looks fuckin' great
04:22
doom2
zero processing, this is just logged footage from the selfdriving device...looks great right outta cam
04:23
doom2
qualcomm system on modules are absurdly powerful and affordable
04:23
doom2
and then you have SiFive coming out with their own 'mobile' procs very soon...so much cool potential out there, not just for cameras, but...in general
04:25
doom2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j9uo6ti13bdptkh/fog.mp4?dl=0
04:25
doom2
noisey fog gradients kinda suffer from lowish bitrate, but i still think it looks fantastic
04:26
doom2
anyway, something for you guys to chew on for the 'micro'
04:27
doom2
i think paired with a high quality, calibrated, highly responsive (comodity priced) touchscreen OLED...there's a fantastic 'micro' opportunity
04:31
doom2
and with the quallcomm brain, running on android, there are so many already built copy-paste, drag and and drop solutions for building the software
04:31
doom2
*'well built*
04:31
doom2
and opensource :p
04:55
doom2
that's my desire though... A contax T3 or sony rx100 size, cinematic-quality, 1080p pocket shooter :PPP
05:00
doom2
i think the ultimate question for a proposed open source pocket-cine-cam is...whether to use an expensive automotive/industrial sensor like the ON that gets things done with minimal post code, or a cheap sony high resolution IMX sensor and code look and features on top
05:04
doom2
the rational answer is probably Sony IMX + post processing and film-grain rendered on top....but the irrational brain wants the physicality of the natural look of the automotive sensors xD
05:05
doom2
well...'natural'
05:05
doom2
anyway, good nights, thanks for listening to my self-indulgent rambles
05:05
doom2
best of luck!
05:05
doom2
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Spirit532
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09:43
se6astian
good day
09:48
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14:40
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
14:40
Bertl
morning folks!
15:24
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aombk
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16:22
se6astian
felix_: every glas layer will influence the other layers, depending on filters having anti reflective coating the effect can be reduced
17:20
felix_
the anti-reflective coating should improve things; thanks for the pointer
17:54
se6astian
"Anti-reflective coatings are often used in camera lenses, giving lens elements distinctive colours."
17:54
se6astian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-reflective_coating
17:55
se6astian
while the glass itself has not really seen much innovation in the last decades a lot happened with the coatings
17:59
se6astian
doom2, in case you read this in the logs
17:59
se6astian
many thanks for your input and thoughts
18:00
se6astian
actually the apertus project started with exactly what you describe
18:00
se6astian
modifying the Elphel 353 camera with a 5 Mpixel 1/2.5" CMOS that provided pretty decent resolution/colors and look
18:02
intrac
left the channel
18:02
se6astian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elphel
18:05
se6astian
it had very similar aesthetics as what you are showing
18:05
se6astian
https://vimeo.com/28615648
18:10
se6astian
https://www.apertus.org/fr/en/elphelcamera
18:11
se6astian
the memories :)
18:42
intrac
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