Current Server Time: 11:41 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/12/04

Timezone: UTC


05:14
aombk
left the channel
06:58
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
07:00
se6astian
good morning
08:39
matray
left the channel
08:41
se6astian
comradekingu: your suggests for article changes are much appreciated but generally I opted for a more story-teller style of writing in contrast to your to-the-point short way of putting facts on the table: me: "We have reached a major milestone: The hardware designs for the AXIOM Beta are complete!", you: "A major milestone is reached, completion of hardware designs for the AXIOM Beta!"
08:43
se6astian
its just a different artistic choice for writing texts we made I guess
08:58
intracube
best team-talk video so far :)
08:58
intracube
+1 really crisp images
09:03
Bertl_oO
se6astian, comradekingu: maybe add as a separate language? (english-nostory)
09:05
Bertl_oO
anyway, off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
09:06
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
09:47
se6astian
intracube: thanks, I am getting really worried that the less jokes we include in the TT the more people like it :)
09:50
intracube
ha, I don't think it's that
09:50
intracube
just that the project is much further along with more to show
09:50
intracube
milling, fabrication, camera output, etc
09:57
PhilCee
joined the channel
09:58
PhilCee
ahoi all..
10:03
se6astian
hi PhilCee!
10:04
PhilCee
nice tt. But i guess there will still be some open questions till all backers will be contributing in phase 1 (or at least: the most of them). Maybe we could open a thread in the lab or something to collect and answer them - so we'll get as much people as possible on the phase 1 step .. (We may not forget that we invited them to spent 350 bucks on the development of an working prototype - there will be a lot of concerns before they
10:05
PhilCee
hi seb - thanks for the work - i still miss the jokes - or at least some funny background-elevator-style-music ;)
10:07
PhilCee
but i am not the "taking it all serious customer" at all..
10:07
PhilCee
*all too serious
10:12
PhilCee
for example: "do we get rid of the defect/ or wrong working columns on the right sensor side? (might be some kind of *dirt on the surface) - we all remember how long it take a big australian company to get some clean sensors into their 4k cinema camera and finally ship them - and how much their customers became upset just about this further delay..
10:12
PhilCee
some say they use the same sensor as the beta does - might be the same problem?
10:13
matray1
joined the channel
10:18
PhilCee
another idea: would it be possible to confirm the the sensor is used in other cams (as rumors say about the aja cion) - so our contributors could get an idea what the final picture might look like..
10:19
PhilCee
and not worry too much about the currently heavy noise even under well lit conditions ..
10:25
PhilCee
dont get me wrong: the picture looks awesome without any improvement (like has been said in irc: crisp and beautiful! ) Congrats to the reached milestone - big step for os/open hardware-movement - especially in a 100+ fps burst - it's just great. Geat Job Seb, Bertl,irieger and all others contributing their time, knowledge, ideas and much more..
10:26
PhilCee
Thanks for your efforts!!
10:49
arpu
joined the channel
11:05
intracube
my only crit with the recent test footage is there's still quite a few over exposed shots
11:06
intracube
particularly 3:44 - 3:48
11:09
se6astian
PhilCee: AFAIR BM had physical dirt compromise thei sensor in the manufacturing process, we have digital artifacts that are most likely caused by a software issue that drives the sensor or processes the data coming from it
11:10
se6astian
we have no means to officialy confirm anything AJA or BM is doing...
11:11
se6astian
intracube: true, especially the bursts are a bitch to focus and expose properly - at the time we created them we did not have live hdmi
11:11
getzi
joined the channel
11:11
se6astian
so it was shooting, downloading, developing, looking
11:11
se6astian
turning lens focus ring 1mm, repeat procedure :)
11:14
intracube
se6astian: eep
11:15
intracube
have to do it the old way then as if you were shooting on reversal film :P
11:16
intracube
light meter, expose for highlights :)
11:16
intracube
you'd need to know the native ISO of the sensor, though
11:22
se6astian
problem was also that we shot macro and had no idea what we actually had in view when focus is off :)
11:23
intracube
oh well :)
11:45
PhilCee
seb - thats something to make a point: the "wrong" columns are no hardware problem - something we can fix in software .. and so on. I guess there will ba still a lot of questions till people check in with another grand..
11:46
PhilCee
*be
11:46
PhilCee
got2go.. i'll have a look at the logs later on..
11:47
PhilCee
bye & thanks!
11:47
PhilCee
left the channel
11:58
getzi
left the channel
12:00
getzi
joined the channel
12:04
getzi
left the channel
12:20
getzi
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12:21
se6astian
PhilCee: more tests will show the source of the problem, we did not have such artifacts on the AXIOM Alpha - it might be a combination of software and hardware influencing each other
13:49
aombk
joined the channel
14:26
matray1
left the channel
14:31
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
14:31
Bertl
morning folks!
14:32
aombk
hi Bertl
14:59
se6astian
time to leave the office
14:59
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
15:08
getzi
left the channel
16:16
irieger
intracube: I'm sadly never had the chance to shoot movies on film but learned to use a external light meter at university. Bought one than and love lighting, powering the cam up and being ready to go.
16:19
irieger
Used what I learned at university for lighting movies to shoot photos on film with my dads old 7x6cm medium format cam which where exposed very well. No false exposure. Only out of focus shots thought. (Sadly some mechanics seem to be missaligned)
16:27
getzi
joined the channel
17:48
pozitrono
left the channel
18:18
james
joined the channel
18:18
james
changed nick to: Guest2304
18:18
Guest2304
hey guys, do you know how I would go about joining in to help out on the beta project?
18:19
Bertl
you already made the first big step by coming here :)
18:19
Guest2304
glad to hear :)
18:20
Bertl
where do you want to help out?
18:20
Guest2304
I was hoping to help out with generating IP for the FPGA
18:20
Guest2304
assuming that either Verilog or SystemVerilog is being used?
18:20
Guest2304
my background is as a Systems Architect
18:20
Bertl
@ip/FPGA excellent!
18:21
Bertl
well, for now we have been unsing VHDL
18:21
Guest2304
ah. ok. not my particular favorite, but still works. any reason for heading that direction?
18:21
Bertl
personally I consider it the "better" language compared with Verilog, but we don't have a problem with either
18:22
Guest2304
You definitely have more control with VHDL rather than Verilog. Have you tried SystemVerilog? That's probably a further step away from VHDL and what you like about it
18:22
Bertl
about two and a half years ago, we started hacking on the FPGA side, and back then, I checked out both HDL dialects and went with the IMHO nicer one (although less popular :)
18:23
Guest2304
although it does have packages like VHDL
18:23
Guest2304
Is there a running list of IP blocks that you guys are hoping to create?
18:23
Bertl
Yes, I know SystemVerilog, it's a step in the right direction
18:24
Bertl
probably the best start is to get familiar with what we have now and figure out what makes sense to tackle
18:24
Guest2304
yeah. with SystemVerilog, I'm a fan of proper packages, typedefs structs and enums, as well as their interfaces and generic types. all great stuff :)
18:25
Guest2304
that makes sense. is there a git repository or anything like that?
18:25
Bertl
basically it depends on how much time you want to invest and if you want to work on larger areas or better small isolated projects
18:25
Bertl
we have a git repository, but it is not (yet) up to date, here is the most recent code:
18:26
Bertl
http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/BETA/cmv_hdmi3/
18:27
Bertl
note: this is a port from the firmware we had for the AXIOM Alpha (with various adjustments) to the Microzed/Beta
18:28
Guest2304
ah ok cool. assuming that the pinouts and everything are available there as well?
18:29
Bertl
yes, either use the .xdc files for pin assignment or check with the schematics
18:29
Guest2304
ok cool.
18:29
Bertl
all the schematics are available online, if you can't find something or need something in a different format (e.g. pdf) just let me know
18:29
Guest2304
would it help at all if I tried to update a git repo with the contents at the website?
18:30
Bertl
if you want to start hacking on it right away, I'll check in the latest version and you can use that
18:30
Guest2304
ok. I'll probably start setting up the project environment this weekend
18:31
Bertl
note: we are using Vivado (web license)
18:31
Guest2304
ok cool. that was my next question
18:31
Bertl
and everything can be built from the command line
18:31
Guest2304
ok. so linux as the primary development platform?
18:31
Bertl
(doesn't mean that you can't use the gui)
18:32
Bertl
yes, although the scripts are in tcl, so you can run it on mac/windows as well
18:32
Guest2304
ok cool. I'll probably bundle some things into a makefile. Usually makes life easier that way IMO
18:33
Bertl
I suggest to find a nick name which isn't already registered/taken and register it for IRC
18:33
Guest2304
yeah. I think I just missed the prompt. was going for James as the nickname
18:33
Bertl
I also suggest to get an IRC client you are comfortable with (Pidgin, irssi, xchat, whatever)
18:33
Guest2304
yep. will be setting up Pidgin
18:34
Bertl
the web interface is nice to get started, but it sucks for long term use
18:34
Guest2304
completely agree
18:34
Bertl
IRC is our main communication medium though, so it makes sense to get that working properly
18:35
Guest2304
yep. so where can I find the git repository?
18:35
Bertl
the channel is also logged, so you can read up on discussions, etc
18:35
comradekingu
Try reading it as a story. It lacks the realism of a story told verbally, and its far removed from anything that reads casually. I found it very hard to understand at all
18:35
Bertl
https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/
18:35
comradekingu
Instructions shouldnt be a story, which is another point i fell off
18:35
Guest2304
sweet. thanks
18:35
Guest2304
ok. that makes sense
18:36
Guest2304
assuming you guys are using forking and pull requests rather than directly working off of branches?
18:36
Bertl
we haven't used git much yet, but I'd say we have to figure this out in the near future
18:37
Bertl
we are confident that the availability of early betas will increase the number of people working on the software side :)
18:37
Guest2304
ok. my recommendation would be for the "core team" to all be added to that repository directly and each change be done on a branch.
18:37
Guest2304
everyone else should fork and do pull requests
18:37
Bertl
makes sense
18:38
Guest2304
yeah. I'm a definite fan of git. They handle things quite nicely
18:38
Guest2304
I've also been working on a side project that is supposed to make open source hardware sharing a little easier
18:38
comradekingu
Total amount of "we" is 8, against 22 originally. Overusing it is not a stopgap measure to acheieve a personal tone, it creates a barrier between what the community project is doing, and the community reading it.
18:38
Guest2304
makeables.info if you were interested in checking it out
18:39
Guest2304
requires a username/password since it still is in the works. u:dreamit p:makeit
18:39
Guest2304
should have git as a backend in another year
18:40
Bertl
looks nice
18:40
pozitrono
joined the channel
18:40
Guest2304
yeah. 22 down to 8 can hurt. I'm sure it'll still run along well enough
18:40
Guest2304
thanks. alpha should be functional in a month
18:40
Guest2304
but for the time being data will be lost if entered. currently just available for demos
18:42
Bertl
of course
18:43
Guest2304
I'd be more than glad to hear anything that you think should be added to it as well
18:43
Bertl
so, are you "expecting" an Early Beta soon?
18:43
Guest2304
the current thing I like about it the most is that there's an active feed of activity going on by all the devlopers
18:43
Guest2304
not sure what you mean by that question
18:44
Bertl
are you one of the Voucher holders and/or are you interested in getting the AXIOM Beta hardware or are you just interested in working on the software side
18:44
getzi_
joined the channel
18:44
Bertl
evening getzi_!
18:45
Guest2304
I just signed up for preorder. It'd be nice to get some hardware at some point soon, but there isn't a rush on that.
18:45
Guest2304
I'm sure I can help out for the time being with just software.
18:46
Guest2304
Although if you guys need help with mechanical drawings or anything like that, I could help out there as well.
18:46
Guest2304
That would probably mean I'd need some example hardware sooner than later
18:46
getzi
left the channel
18:47
Bertl
I think to have hardware available is nice in any case ... and there is also work on the mechanical and electrical side, so you can go crazy wherever you like :)
18:47
getzi_
hello hello
18:48
Bertl
getzi_: how was the assembly?
18:48
Guest2304
works for me. I doubt that there is a central location for work needed? Just so that way I can pick off one item at a time
18:48
Guest2304
and I definitely agree on having the hardware available is very nice
18:49
Bertl
we are using phabricator for coordination
18:49
Guest2304
not familiar with that one
18:49
Bertl
https://lab.apertus.org/
18:49
Bertl
you can register an account there and look at the various "open tasks"
18:50
Bertl
but note that we haven't added many software tasks yet, because the focus was on getting the hardware ready
18:50
Guest2304
ok. makes sense
18:50
Guest2304
what software are you guys using for the skeleton? (aka the mechanical drawings. I noticed KiCAD for the pcb side of things)
18:51
getzi_
it was allright, I'll send some pics & update later
18:51
Guest2304
onshape.com seems pretty cool for that kind of thing
18:51
Bertl
getzi_: good to hear! excellent!
18:52
Bertl
Guest2304: while we still plan to migrate to KiCad, we have been using Eagle for now, but despite the fact that it isn't open source software, it is not a vendor lockin
18:53
Guest2304
yeah. I've used Eagle in the past. KiCad is great, but their library management is kind of a pain
18:53
Bertl
Eagle has a "free" (as in beer) version which can be used to do simple stuff and view complex stuff
18:53
Bertl
and since version 6.x they use XML for all documents, so easy to read/modify/convert
18:53
Guest2304
interesting. curious how git would handle merges on those files then
18:54
Guest2304
eh. would just want to always accept the newest file.
18:54
Bertl
KiCad has dramatically improved over the last year or two since CERN got interested and working on it
18:55
Guest2304
yeah. I'd agree with that
18:55
Bertl
so I hope we will soon find the time an leisure to migrate
18:55
Guest2304
freecad has gotten a lot better recently as well. Still not where I'd like it
18:55
Guest2304
however, it still is the best opensource mechanical cad program I know of
18:56
Bertl
yep
18:56
getzi
joined the channel
18:57
Guest2304
ok. I think I've gotten enough information to at least get setup on things
18:57
Bertl
excellent! welcome to the team! :)
18:57
Guest2304
thanks! it definitely sounded like a fun project :)
18:58
Bertl
note: I'll read up on anything you direct at me (either by prepending my nick or as private chat), it might take some time, but you'll get an answer
18:58
getzi_
left the channel
18:59
Guest2304
ok. that works for me. I probably won't be needing an immediate answer anyways
19:00
Bertl
if you want to know something about the software side or electronics, I'm the person to contact, for mechanical and organization you better contact se6astian|away (who also reads up and answers in a timely manner)
19:00
Guest2304
ok. sounds good.
19:01
Guest2304
assuming that the IRC tag is the #apertus above for later setting up with pidgin correct?
19:01
Bertl
yep, IRC channel is #apertus @ irc.freenode.net
19:02
Guest2304
cool. sounds good. thanks! will be sure to keep in touch :)
19:02
Bertl
looking forward to it
19:02
Guest2304
cool. thanks for the info. I'll ping you again later this weekend regarding how setup went and where I think I'll dive in first
19:03
Bertl
excellent
19:07
Guest2304
left the channel
19:39
getzi
left the channel
19:40
arpu
left the channel
19:55
pozitrono
left the channel
20:00
arpu
joined the channel
20:02
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
20:02
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
20:14
intracube
irieger: yep, same here. I've never had the chance to shoot on film
20:14
intracube
other than still 35mm
21:05
pozitron
joined the channel
21:43
irieger
intracube: It's sad but on the other side I think does how don't even try digital are morons too sometimes. And then there is wrongly handled hardware that gives it a bad taste in the press too:
21:44
irieger
http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/what-one-bad-screening-of-the-hateful-eight-means-for-the-future-of-film
21:45
irieger
Didn't liked the image frame moving around in the analog projection in our local cinema before the DCP times thought. But I'm going to see Hateful Eight in 70mm of course