#apertus IRC Channel Logs

skinkie_, neurofunk is a music subgenre

there are optical ones, adding a stepper motor to the rails must have been done already

Is there something for which one needs better resolution than can be found on a slider?

I just see it as intuitive to see on display the different values, then move the slider there. Practically takes all the motorical learning out of getting good results quick

and if you need/want the optical feedback of a slider, you can always draw one

Crazy idea dont think its been made before. Not even sure if its possible. Optical based rotary knob. Dont ask ill have to draw it.

A fingerwheel option would technically be the best. Then you dont get the screen thouhg.

unless...

night

Rebelj12a: rotary optical sensors are found in trackballs. You move the wheel thats connected to a shaft that has a "knob" on the end of it

One of these things http://www.protoplant.com/Stepperature it does make noise when turning though

or you could hold down a button to make it just shutter

trackballs can reliably track in either x or y axis alone, and sensitivity can be set in stops if you want something thats ultraquick to work on

why not a trackball that clicks, why is other buttons not as good for clicking?

Trackballs tend to be less forgiving to elements.

aperture and iso are two linear values that you have on the same knob with a trackball

you can get trackballs with weather sealing

In a panic, I can think of _nothing_ worse for a design. Frantically trying to change a shutter angle and accidentally changing an ISO etc.

Adjust zoom and shutter without moving your hands

im not arguing the point that touchscreen makes for a intuitive interface

Touchscreens _suck_ on cameras.

no reason to get upset

I am not.

I never argued for touchscreens

track-ball, not touch-screen

i agree with you

cite?

I can think of _one_, but the ball size would be vastly too small for it.

you have a matrix on the screen, and a way to adjust either axis on one control, faster

What is the need?

Not the other way.

what are all the different things to be adjusted?

And on context, historical etc. also has a weight.

I never liked digital photography input, one of the reasons i got interested in apertus is i can build my own input

is there a design document for what the dictator does currently?

http://octoray.co.uk/axiom/tambov/tambov02.html

arent computer fans 80 92 or 120mm? Havent seen 100

comradekingu: you caught me a little of guard asking for a single document that would describe it. Basically the main design is Beta as we saw it on Indiegogo campaign page: very compact air flow cooled possibly with an optional fan at the top

it would be nice to have an exploded view with all the parts

i dont know what the "problem" is to begin with, i only have a rudimentary idea

comradekingu: do you think I'm not? :)

an A B comparison would be easier to follow

with optional external fans

"If we find that the bridge is transferring too much heat from the rear (hot) enclosure to the front (cool) " this sounds like a bonus to me

hehe, it made _no_ sense

why not run the cables in a cable-gate through a round tube, less mechanical complexity, easier on the hand to hold

it can still be standard ribbon cables, it never moves

I understand twisted pairs are better than IDC cable

these tubes are 15mm on the outside, some 11-13mm on the inside.. can't fit that much inside can we?

i was thinking in the top tube, that is bigger. the problem is distance

not sure how wide it has to be

the top part, it doesnt need to be a triangle, go with square, and make it the top of each box

make the end of the sylinders that stick out into screws to fasten it?

comradekingu: re removing the triangle, do you mean this? http://octoray.co.uk/axiom/tambov/tambov0.2-1-bis.png

no, just the part that is on top there

making a mockup

comradekingu: We have crossed this before. You do not want more compact ;)

troy_s: hi there :) in this design the only standard dimension is 85mm between the center of the _bottom_ pair of rods and lens center

So it matches the cinema 19 rod dimension or one of the 15?

So those rod holes are through holes ala R3D?

the bottom pair of rods here is 15mm light weight system

the top pair of rods does not match anything, it's part of camera body so to say

Is that open hole near the bottom air intake?

so the idea is this: the top pair of rods are "part of camera body". then to these rods you can attach adapters

one adapter I've shown in the illustration. it allows us to attach 15mm LWS rods

That needs to be plate based, so the bottom of the camera is your lowest point.

troy_s: I'm afraid I'm a little lost to your explanation

http://octoray.co.uk/axiom/tambov/tambov0.2-1-bis2.png

So a few things wrong there:

B) The camera rods can never be fixed to camera as that would not allow for adaptation or alternate rod sets.

___anton___: Sense?

comradekingu: I pinged you back from PM to here.

troy_s: aha I see what you mean

troy_s: I haven't drawn these in my diagrams but I assume that some type of clamps are part of camera body

Most are part of the plate systems now.

One tickles my memory

you can remove the faceplates to switch sensor or fpga

and they are both mounted with cooling paste onto the main part

The mount flange will sit flush to it, and the sensor at critical distance beyond that.

you attach a different spacer block to the front of the cam

___anton___: Awful CoG

Center of gravity

well I was assuming a heavy lens in front

well but you can easily see how that block can have a slightly different shape, right?

we can easily place the connection holes where we need them to be

Or even, god forbid, the R3D.

You will see almost identical placements on all.

(But the point stands)

If the example is compact housing, have a peek at the Arri M.

troy_s: I've just changed my adapter design slightly: http://octoray.co.uk/axiom/tambov/tambov0.2-tripod2.png

(The Alexa may actually have fixed rod supports, but it is worth looking at the tolerances built around the chassis portion to see how the rod clearance is built in)

Just get the body right.

And a nasty one at that.

not beautiful? not aesthetically appealing?

not providing sturdy enough support?

No reason to have a block there.

All of that crap can be nuked, and simply extend the housing down.

In addition to that

Hell, you couldn't even fit a lens on there. :)

my sides

From your flange point forward should be totally clear.

Don't worry about balance either, your base mount points are consistent with the existing gear; balance is provided via a sliding dove or such that adjusts variably for lens, gak, etc.

__anton__: change the top rectangle on both sides btw

This is the nightmare you get when you ignore existing gear dimensions:

http://provideocoalition.com/images/uploads/FSCIMG_6155.jpg

troys_s: this is another variant that I had in mind all along

Just be aware of the most important design focus point of all: context.

Anyone that dismisses it, probably ought to work through _why_ those contexts exist in the first place. If they do, and the reasoning is solid as to a counterpoint, then by all means try it.

:)

LOL

troy_s: I want to use this camera too, and I'd rather use it handheld or on a light shoulder rig

So wait

Or is it specifically designed for that?

Well that is your first horrific problem

Ask anyone shooting with a DSLR what the worst case nightmare is for shooting (beyond almost everything including remote head work)

That length to the cameras isn't a fluke

No one is shooting with an 18-55 plastic lens at a whopping 5/6

... but I might try with 50/1.8

Like a 1.2-1.4 50mm or 85?

Huge diameter too.

Now think about suckholing to a rental house

And they have a friend with a set of Master Primes. You manage to borrow them.

So again, context.

..hmm but in that case I take out my top rods from my design and instead insert longer ones - that go backwards. There I have a shoulder pad and behind that a heavy battery to balance

Rebelj12a: Probably disagree with you. They are too stumpy.

And no one wants to be adding tree weights.

well it's somewhat hard to make Axiom Beta heavy :)

how do you do it?

But a modular housing extension is an option. I will say of course, that it is probably wiser to simply start longer. The Alexa M for example, rents how often?

Looks great. Has a touchscreen!!!

I am sure either will wax lyrical about how the form factor completely screws you shooting.

(Crappy design being the damn BMCC housing of course, not the A M, as it has a very particular usage window)

I hate the touchscreen

Theyve made improvements which, maykes the BMCC *barely* tolerable

How about form factor?

How would you rate the "nice and teeny" body for handheld usage?

Or at all

im gangly what do you want

If you had a pick, would you have made it longer or stumpier?

Longer definitely

HAH 3 - 4 hours, took it off the tripod once for an event cause i was tired of sitting around.

Otherwise its shoulder mount.

I am willing to wager rexbron has identical views on the housing. I know he was a fan of the Penelope's form for handheld.

For anyone that has never shot a frame.

Also the handlebars BMCC has for it are less than useless I have them dont know why, In case I need to attach it to a zipline or something I dont know.

Yeah

like a gimbal, without the stabilization

That design looked absolutely batshit to me.

Fun fact I am converting an antique box for holding a very heavy surveyers telescope into a BMCC travel funbox.

For funsies

troy_s: because the design I offered today can actually satisfy your requirements as well

what have I done?

instead I've inserted a huge brick of aluminium

rock solid

HEAVY

?

hmmm.. but is this last design any worse?

Seriously, have a look at 50 years of camera design. Here is an easily Googleable list.

this is modular

this camera can be small and GH3-ish for those who want it

and it can be heavy and strong for those who need that

Who the _fsck_ wants a small G3?

those same people who buy bmpcc?

I dare you.

Hence they came out with the URSA which btw im totally not sold on.

Does the Ursa do off speed?

I'd rather have a lighter cam then

suppose I want some home video?

Then you aren't making cinema really.

Suppose someone wants to use it for veterinarian research in dog mouths.

I mean it is a lovely and seductive bit of total crap to say "It can be for everyone!!11!!!"

Just make it work for your primary audience. Fsck the rest.

so that basically it comes down to: can my needs as a home video shooter be met without sacrificing yours

I could care less about mine. Who is the audience?

I'm trying to make it broad. I'm trying to include all those who used to be shooting on DSLR up till now plus the lower end of cinema shooters

Let's meet everyone's goals in the middle, shall we?

Hey i like plywood

Again… with the untimely entrances XD

troy_s: but then auto makers successfully produce both saloon and estate cars on the same platform

troy_s: LOTS of space for cargo

And not all are successful… *cough* saturn

However if you do notice the auto manufacturing industry is suffering as well

more recalls, more issues. More technology crammed into them causing more problems

so Rebelj12a, what's your take? would you take this to shoot? http://octoray.co.uk/axiom/tambov/tambov0.2-tripod4.png

"No but wait... It is also A TENT!!!!111!!!"

How does that fit into the larger item?

option. For an experimental camera I don't think this can be bad - being able to take off one base and put on another.

off for short nap

__anton__: Worth a read https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-February/msg00174.html

In all honestly with the parts and how its made anyone should be able to 3d print their own enclosure or cnc etc

I am doing very little except for offering what little I am aware of when I can find time.

And a little on hardware.

But bugger all in the stuff some of the peeps around here are big brained at such as electronics and other deep dark alchemy.

Blah.

Just another donkey in a boat.

It is what drew me (and a few others) here.

I want to see it succeed and make a big market presence and shake things up I want it to appeal to everyone without being a crapshoot and also being a testbed for introductory shooters to be able to learn how to do it properly and what makes a good camera

cause I like that

I remember reading a quote from my school years which was something like "if you want to appeal to widen your appeal, narrow your focus."

night

and looking at the logs, interesting discussion too :)

Bertl: morning! Looks like I stirred a bit of a discussion at night with this http://octoray.co.uk/axiom/tambov/tambov02.html

Intetestingly enough Troy remained unconvinced even though I listened to him very carefully before starting my work on this

well, it's a large connector

but an interesting design

(or the connection between both parts, i.e. the backplane_

Re heat transfer through top panel - I dont have a definitive plan yet. Perhaps some plastic that would prevent metal of top pamel from coming in contact with metal of the rear enclosure

Bertl: I am not sure of my further actions. I could potentially try to get this implemented in metal - get some help producing proper drafts etc The lens mount would be the biggest prob. But I definitely wont be able to produce special versions of interface and beta boards. So if ever there is general interest to work in this direction pls let me know. I fully understand that design oardof the normal versions of these

we will definitely have to prioritize the 'normal' design to get something working, but if there is enough interest, I don't see why we shouldn't help with the boards

There are only so many hours in a day :(

Btw what is your intuition - if I kept pushing in this direction, does a flex pcb look more promising or do the gigantic backplane connectors look like a safer bet?

the planned connectors have two rows at a 0.5mm spacing

giving you a total of 4 shielded layers to connect the interface board with the beta board

really depends on the manufacturer

but for the actual connection, they could be as small as the manufacturer can produce with a given impedance

not necessarily

hey ItsNotBert1ButActuallyBertl

fine, thanks! and you?

off to beddybyes soon

and i need a good bed to be in sleep

i dont :P

i still get a free axiom for being good looking right?

i am, i am having my nose remodelled into the shape of an axiom

i cant take one til i get my free axiom

lol

philippej closed T111: Post "job offers" somewhere, for people willing to help (benevolent) as "Wontfix". http://lab.apertus.org/T111

off for now .. bbs

philippej created T133: Documenting the discussion about sliders. http://lab.apertus.org/T133

sebastian closed T41: Send crowd funding backer FAQ article to backers as "Resolved". http://lab.apertus.org/T41

is there a ticket or any ideas how to implement the "4K RAW PC recording option"?

davidak, no ticket

will it work over Gigabit-Ethernet and will you provide capture software?

no, gigabit ethernet is way to slow for transferring 4k raw in realtime

there is no ticket yet, we are currently investigating options in this regard

s/solution/case/

would you build that card or are there any on the market?

there are SDI cards from multiple vendors

there are also HDMI recording cards from multiple vendors

but they won't work with non HDMI protocols

but will they support to add the frames together or is that a software thing?

ok

i have no access right now

otherwise, please keep a mental note and add it later

or i do it later when i am at home

davidak, do yo uhave an account on drupal.org?

sorry, on apertus.org

what is your username?

davidak ;)

in T130

thanks, will register right now

done

more accurately : suggest modification of any page

how to edit a page?

i see that on my profile page

is there a backend?

you might need to hit reload

Home/Cameras

Submitted by Sebastian on Mon, 04/28/2014 - 22:10

if all goes well you should also have a top bar

hard refresh ? shift + f5 ?

to see if you ar elogged, go to https://apertus.org/user

might be a problem of www. vs non www.

logged in again and no edit tab

I have to go, will look for it asap

i am at home in 1 hour

Anton you there?

more ideas are welcome :)

Rebelj12a: hi mate, whazzup?

i also want a "marketing" project, maybe with a nicer name

davidak created T137: Website SEO: Image alt attributes. http://lab.apertus.org/T137

what's the idea of the marketing/promotion project?

what about "Public Relations" then?

yes, that is good

good night