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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/10/04

Timezone: UTC


01:06
Legendin
left the channel
01:12
dmjnova
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01:38
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
01:38
Bertl
back now ...
01:57
intracube
Bertl: se6astian|away: a small comment about the wording of the perks on the main indiegogo page;
01:58
intracube
it could be interpreted by people not familiar with indiegogo/crowdsourcing that they're obligated to buy the camera when they choose one of the â¬350 perks
01:58
intracube
rather than it giving them an entitlement to get the camera for a discount
01:59
intracube
I was a bit unsure about that when I first read it
01:59
comradekingu
How would you change it?
02:00
intracube
and there have been comments from at least one other person (on magiclantern forum) who also seems to have misunderstood
02:00
intracube
comradekingu: it's the "and est. â¬2,300 due at ship of axiom beta" that could be reworded
02:01
intracube
'payment due' in english usually means some form of a bill
02:03
intracube
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11787.msg130295#msg130295
02:07
intracube
maybe the number of people actually confused is very low, idk
02:12
comradekingu
depends where you imply the comma
02:12
comradekingu
but it isnt actually when it ships, is it?
02:17
comradekingu
"When the axiom beta is due to ship" is better i think
02:26
Bertl
intracube: the problem is, the perks become immutable once they are chosen by at least one contributor
02:26
Bertl
i.e. for obvious reasons, they cannot be changed
02:28
intracube
comradekingu: not really, it still doesn't make clear that:
02:28
intracube
- the final purchase of the camera is completely optional
02:28
Bertl
but I agree, wording could have been better ... then on the other hand, we are not native English speakers, and we try to ask native speakers for help on every occasion, it probably just wasn't available when it was written
02:28
intracube
- the buyer doesn't have to buy the camera as soon as they become available
02:28
intracube
but as Bertl says, it can't be changed now
02:29
Bertl
also note that indigogo perks and descriptions are quite limite
02:29
Bertl
+d
02:29
Bertl
(in number of characters that is)
02:30
intracube
Bertl: yup, no worries :)
02:30
Bertl
I'm not worried :)
02:31
intracube
figure of speech :P
02:31
Bertl
I know *G*
02:31
Bertl
btw, can anybody help me understand what the idea of 'will sandenbergh' is? (comments section)
02:33
intracube
Bertl: what bit are you confused by?
02:34
Bertl
I do understand the feature list and vote on part
02:34
Bertl
but does he mean on indiegogo? in combination with a contribution/perk?
02:35
wescotte
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02:35
intracube
I don't know. possibly he means after the current campaign ends.
02:36
Bertl
hmm ...
02:36
intracube
create a list on apertus.org and allow people to vote for most wanted features
02:37
intracube
which might be the basis for anther funding campaign
02:38
intracube
the idea sounds unnecessary right now
02:38
Bertl
we already do regular feature voting (although it was a little slow/lame the last month)
02:38
Bertl
(lame because we didn't change the questions :)
02:38
intracube
right now I guess the focus for you is on the fundamental 'must have' features
02:38
intracube
'would like' features come much later
02:39
Bertl
yes, I'm constantly urging folks to put features they would like to see at some point on the wiki
02:39
intracube
extra lens mounts, different sensors would be too much variation at this stage
02:39
intracube
I'm surprised there are three sensor options already
02:39
Bertl
because right now I have to be super critical about every feature because it _will_ cost extra time and money
02:39
Bertl
and we do not want to finish the Beta in five years :)
02:41
intracube
but it would be good to know what features most people want for the longer term
02:42
Bertl
yes, precisely
02:42
intracube
an OLPF would be right near the top of my list
02:43
Bertl
what's the problem with that?
02:43
intracube
obviously testing can be done without, but for usable footage it's important
02:43
Bertl
I mean, what is the problem with simply adding one?
02:43
intracube
aliasing/false colour/moire
02:43
intracube
no problem
02:43
Bertl
so why add it as 'core part' to the Beta?
02:43
intracube
except finding a supplier and getting a filter that closely matches the sensor resolution
02:44
Bertl
so that is something we can certainly outsource
02:44
intracube
and have it physically fit in front of the sensor
02:44
Bertl
(to the community that is)
02:44
intracube
Bertl: agreed
02:44
intracube
it's still a core component, imo
02:45
Bertl
it is a quite expensive part nevertheless, so nothing everybody will want to have integrated or so
02:45
intracube
yep
02:46
Bertl
and we won't be able to test a variety of solutions, otherwise we would spend all our money on OLPF samples :)
02:46
Bertl
so, while it might be an important part, it is better addressed by the community
02:46
intracube
maybe you could get free samples if OLPF manufacturers think they'll get more business?
02:47
Bertl
what we can think about, and if it is something which is important to you, is to devise test methods to make it easy to compare different solutions
02:49
Bertl
something like the Beta can only scale if we actually manage to leverage to potential of the community here
02:49
Bertl
i.e. devise some tests which provide enough data to classify a solution
02:50
Bertl
have everybody interested acquire a specific solution (coordinated efford) and test it with the devised test system for classification
02:50
Bertl
feed back the data and identify excellent choices as well as get rid of problematic solutions
02:51
intracube
yep
02:58
intracube
time for bed
02:58
Bertl
sweet dreams!
02:59
intracube
night
02:59
intracube
changed nick to: intracube_afk
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jucar1
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jucar
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05:01
wescotte
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05:24
Bertl
90k \o/
05:44
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
05:45
Bertl
morning se6astian!
05:45
se6astian
good morning
05:45
se6astian
still working away on the AXIOM Beta? :)
05:45
Bertl
yup
05:46
se6astian
great!
05:49
Gegsite
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Gegsite
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g3gg0
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08:53
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
08:53
Bertl
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g3gg0
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aquarat2
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aquarat
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Legendin
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g3gg0
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Legendin
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Legendin
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Gegsite
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13:47
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
13:47
Bertl
morning folks!
13:57
Legendin
Heya Bertl!
13:58
Legendin
Am I right in assuming you live in the states, or?
13:59
Gegsite
left the channel
14:02
Bertl
no, you're wrong, I'm in Austria (Europe)
14:42
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
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Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
16:02
ctag
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Legendin
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Bertl_oO
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16:48
Bertl
back now ...
17:40
daFred
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17:44
daFred
it's almost time to cool some bottles of champagne...
17:46
Bertl
almost, yes :)
18:10
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
18:10
Gegsite
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18:27
g3gg0
still a few k⬠to gain
18:28
g3gg0
5 days and nearly 8kâ¬
18:28
g3gg0
the last boost calms down, hope it wont stagnate and stop at 99kâ¬
18:28
g3gg0
:)
18:29
Bertl
it is the weekend
18:29
Gegsite
I would donate, but still confused
18:30
Bertl
so let's hear what confuses you :)
18:30
Bertl
maybe we can clear that up once for all
18:30
Gegsite
not mutch so will dont recall to me that 8k⬠:)
18:31
Bertl
oookay?
18:31
Gegsite
mmmkay
18:32
Gegsite
I'm reading now the axiom beta
18:32
Bertl
means, no clue what you are trying to communicate?
18:35
Bertl
anyway, if you have questions regarding the AXIOM Beta, your potential contribution or anything related to the development, please do not hesitate to ask
18:45
comradekingu
heia g3gg0 from german op boards?
18:46
Gegsite
I will be probably Mega supporter in a few days :P
18:50
comradekingu
93% it says
18:55
daFred
are there engineering grade cmosis CMV12000 available? Thinking of a long therm "burn in" test as soon as possible. So we have maybe 6 month test when the first batch is ready. We could put the latest image on the webpage...
18:58
Bertl
we got one for the Alpha, but I think they are not readily available anymore
18:58
g3gg0
comradekingu: german, right. magic lantern dev.
19:00
comradekingu
nice
19:00
comradekingu
I think i tried that on my dads point and shoot canon
19:00
comradekingu
no that was chdk
19:02
Bertl
g3gg0: btw, has there been some support from Canon for ML?
19:02
g3gg0
bertl: not at all
19:02
g3gg0
not even a word about us
19:04
g3gg0
comradekingu: yeah, CHDG is related to ML
19:04
g3gg0
the chips share the same architecture
19:04
g3gg0
registers, devices etc
19:05
g3gg0
at least the DIGIC-chip internals are related
19:05
g3gg0
on-board devices like codecs, sensors, ADCs and so on are different
19:05
g3gg0
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Register_Map
19:05
g3gg0
this is what we know about the digic's on-die peripherals
19:06
g3gg0
ADCs are external and we are not sure how to program them. we learnt a lot from experiments too, but a datasheet would help quite a lot more :)
19:07
Bertl
g3gg0: I suspected so, but they should have realized by now that ML is not the enemy, on the contrary, I'm pretty sure many folks buy those cameras because of ML
19:08
g3gg0
Bertl: its complicated for a company like canon to give a statement about us... they dont control us. so they cannot be sure that we will not act against their plans
19:08
Q_
g3gg0: Are those ADCs from some known manufacturer?
19:08
g3gg0
see the 1DC 1DX discussion..
19:08
g3gg0
Q_: yes, ADI
19:08
Bertl
so how is ML designed ATM, can you give me a quick intro?
19:09
Q_
g3gg0: ADI should have datasheets for them?
19:09
g3gg0
Q_: http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/ADTG one of them in a 600D
19:09
g3gg0
Q_: no, its a customer-specific part. not even technical support has access to information what this chip does
19:09
Q_
Oh.
19:09
g3gg0
Bertl: well, its quite complex. let me explain....
19:10
g3gg0
Bertl: stock canon firmware has a flag in its configuration area that tells the bootloader to check the memory card for a binary AUTOEXEC.BIN that is being loaded to a predefined memory address and executed
19:11
Bertl
okay (LOL @ name)
19:11
g3gg0
Bertl: now using a forged firmware update file we rewrite this flag. (firmware update does not contain a new firmware, but just custom flashloaders that write the flag)
19:11
Bertl
so the firmware/updates are not signed or anything, yes?
19:12
g3gg0
then we have two different methods of hooking into boot: a) copying firmware parts into RAM, patching it, hooking a task and continue execution
19:12
g3gg0
or b) patching cache content so the flash "looks" different and so patch any arbitrary memory location
19:12
g3gg0
flashloaders are signed
19:13
g3gg0
but we know how to.....
19:13
Bertl
okay :)
19:13
g3gg0
thats the story. that way we can hook into normal firmware execution
19:13
Bertl
so basically you get control early and patch up the existing firmware with custom parts, yes?
19:13
g3gg0
of course we have to hijack some ram areas for ourself etc
19:13
g3gg0
yeah
19:14
g3gg0
not much needed by the way
19:14
g3gg0
normal magic lantern only needs startup patches
19:14
g3gg0
during runtime we can simply add features by calling firmware routines
19:15
g3gg0
sometimes we have to patch RAM pointers, but normally no firmware content has to be modified
19:15
g3gg0
if we have to "patch" firmware content for some features, we mostly do that with cache hacks
19:15
g3gg0
the ARM's CP15 interface allows arbitrary access to cache content
19:16
g3gg0
lock cache pages, place our patches there, noone notices
19:17
Bertl
understood, and development tools for the cpus (what do they use) are available somewhere?
19:17
Bertl
ah yes, okay, that explains
19:17
Bertl
is there a danger/potential for canon to lock you out?
19:17
g3gg0
sure
19:17
g3gg0
they never did :)
19:17
Bertl
or is the design "so good" that they have no way to block you, like on the xbox :)
19:17
g3gg0
you mean A20 ?
19:17
g3gg0
nah they have the chance to block us by signing .FIR = firmware update a lot better
19:17
Q_
Afaik, canon known about it and doesn't care.
19:18
g3gg0
Q_: yep thats the case
19:18
g3gg0
they dont love us, they dont hate us
19:18
Bertl
yeah, that's good, but it might suddenly become a problem
19:18
g3gg0
we dont cause trouble, people like ML, so they stay nice and dont actively suppress ML
19:19
Bertl
of course, there is no automatic firmware update (yet) so probably not critical for existing cameras
19:19
g3gg0
Bertl: who knows what happens in the future, yes
19:19
g3gg0
t.b.h.. from the firmware design... canon cameras never were made for video recording
19:20
g3gg0
reworking all the sensor IO driver stuff will give us perhaps 100 fps without trouble.
19:20
g3gg0
but they do it... uh oh... in a so "unconvinient" way that you can be lucky to get 60 fps
19:21
g3gg0
toooo much reinitializations. every frame is set up like a single frame shot. all settings written again etc..
19:21
comradekingu
g3gg0: i would spend more time focusing on being profitable if i were canon. Magic lantern is the only ting making me consider canon cameras
19:22
g3gg0
comradekingu: not sure... dont think they ever noticed our work in their money pockets
19:23
comradekingu
they must notice their own business model not working out
19:23
g3gg0
the coolness factor of a custom firmware hack like ML is absolutely high. but this affects maybe 2% of their customers
19:24
Bertl
okay, so how does development work in ML? are features added/unlocked because they have been discovered or is it more development on user demand?
19:24
comradekingu
this is the paradox though, i value magic lantern, but i dont want to support canon
19:24
Bertl
a good point for the AXIOM I guess :)
19:25
g3gg0
Bertl: both. its our hobby. if we find things out that look cool, we try to make it a feature that users can use. if users ask for addition or changes, we try to add them.
19:25
comradekingu
yes, thats why axiom makes sense. I figured this when working on the opensource site
19:26
g3gg0
e.g. raw video. people then asked for raw(-data based) histograms and alex added it
19:26
Bertl
cool! so what are the most requested features?
19:26
g3gg0
4k raw video
19:26
g3gg0
definitely
19:27
Bertl
and that works at a reasonable frame rate (i.e. 30 FPS or so)?
19:27
g3gg0
people also love: focus peaking, raw histograms, zooming in some areas to check focus
19:27
g3gg0
24fps or a multiple
19:28
Bertl
where does the data go?
19:28
ctag
joined the channel
19:28
g3gg0
tahts waht i remember of video guys asking for
19:28
g3gg0
in ML?
19:28
Bertl
4k@24FPS is a lot of data if uncompressed
19:28
g3gg0
yeah
19:28
g3gg0
in ML we only have the chance to write it onto CF/SD cards
19:29
g3gg0
a good CF in canon cameras can get up to 110 MB/s
19:29
Bertl
and you have a single card, yes?
19:29
g3gg0
we have a few hundred megabytes of RAM, so we can buffer a few seconds
19:29
g3gg0
so there are two ways of recording:
19:30
g3gg0
some 1080 resolution recording as RAW without limit. so you can record minutes
19:30
Q_
There are at least models that have more than 1 slot.
19:30
g3gg0
others do only 5 seconds recordings with max resolution
19:30
Bertl
okay, let me do some math and correct me when I go wrong:
19:30
g3gg0
depending on your storyline this is possible.
19:30
Q_
But I think the camera goes off if you open the door?
19:31
Q_
Or did they fix that?
19:31
g3gg0
5D3 has SD + CF
19:31
Bertl
4k = 4096x3072 or something like that, at probably 10-12bit, yes?
19:31
g3gg0
you cannot open the door while the camera is recording
19:31
g3gg0
eos has 14 bit
19:31
g3gg0
but 12 is okay
19:31
Bertl
so roughly 16 gigabit per frame uncompressed raw
19:32
comradekingu
can you hook up the CF pins to a P-ata interface?
19:32
Bertl
no, sorry, too fast
19:32
g3gg0
18Mib/frame
19:32
g3gg0
MiB
19:32
Bertl
160 megabit/frame
19:32
g3gg0
lets calc with 20, yeah
19:33
Bertl
or toughly 20Mbyte/frame
19:33
Bertl
*roughly
19:33
Bertl
right?
19:33
g3gg0
you would need a few CFs in parallel
19:33
g3gg0
yep
19:33
Bertl
okay, so I presume you do some lossless compression on the fly?
19:33
g3gg0
nope. wait!
19:34
g3gg0
we *can not* do 4k video yet
19:34
g3gg0
people demand it :)
19:34
Bertl
ah, okay, that explains a lot :)
19:34
g3gg0
we can only deliver 1080 yet
19:34
Bertl
because I think the memory doesn't help you either
19:34
g3gg0
or higher resolutions but only a few seconds of video due to the large buffers :)
19:34
Bertl
for obvious reasons, as you can hardly get a second stored in a few hundred megabytes
19:35
g3gg0
2k is doable iirc
19:35
Bertl
we did some calculations for the beta, which has 1 Gigabyte of memory
19:36
Q_
Do any of them have HDMI?
19:36
Bertl
and you can get away with 128M for linux, if you need to
19:36
g3gg0
due to the raw workflow upscaling to e.g. 4k isnt a big problem and you still get better footage than 4k compressed video
19:36
Bertl
which leaves almost 900Mbyte for buffering
19:36
g3gg0
(from what i remember video guys telling us)
19:37
g3gg0
but you could add four CF slots :)
19:37
g3gg0
or SSD-SATA ports
19:37
g3gg0
just one hypothetical example:
19:37
Bertl
yes, 6G sata ports on the Z-7015, that's the idea (once we get there)
19:38
Bertl
93k \o/
19:38
regnirps
Do like Mac Pro. Put flash on a system bus.
19:39
g3gg0
four CF-slots with 100MiB/s write rate each, hardware controlled I/O from FPGA domain. this should get you 24fps with 4k stable.
19:39
g3gg0
just the storage size, lets say 512 GiB is limiting you
19:39
Bertl
barely if at all
19:40
daFred
short input: 6655 EUR to go .... this is better than watching TV ...
19:40
Bertl
4k,12bit,24FPS (to take your example) gives 452MByte/s
19:40
Bertl
daFred: definitely
19:40
regnirps
But I think non-volative RAM (the feroelectric stuff. Samsung is going to be producing - among others) will displace flash in a year or so, so plan for it?
19:41
g3gg0
uh i get 430 MiB/s
19:41
g3gg0
432
19:41
Bertl
yes, you are right
19:41
g3gg0
but still doable with nowadays CF
19:41
Q_
MiB vs MB
19:41
Bertl
I had the 30FPS in mind
19:42
g3gg0
ah ok :)
19:42
Bertl
but that's actually 540MByte/s
19:42
g3gg0
if you play with these thoughts, i can recommend using the .mlv format for video frames
19:43
g3gg0
it allows you span the data across several media if needed
19:43
Q_
So if you want to record an hour, you're at 1.6 TB.
19:43
g3gg0
e.g. on 5D3 we can use CF plus SD for writing video frames
19:43
Bertl
sounds good, does it handle random access, indexing and checksumming somehow?
19:43
g3gg0
some post processing tools already know this format and the workflow is evolving
19:44
g3gg0
Bertl: random access: yes. it is block oriented. every data block (metadata or video/audio) contains a µs timestamp
19:45
g3gg0
Bertl: blocks can appear in any order, in any file and PP tools have to index them.
19:45
Bertl
okay
19:46
g3gg0
Bertl: i had in mind that files are split at 2G / 4G, a "recording" can contain of multiple files and due to buffering the data from camera isnt necesarily in sequence
19:46
g3gg0
checksums are not implemented. good point.
19:47
g3gg0
easy to add if required
19:47
Bertl
that is always good to hear
19:48
g3gg0
we have a lot of metadata blocks that are predefined
19:48
Bertl
regarding the raw data itself, what data order/sequence does/can it support?
19:48
g3gg0
so if you experiment with raw video, contact me, we can get a minimal solution very quickly
19:49
g3gg0
it is (right now) hardcoded to 1-16 bpp where the data is stored as follows:
19:49
g3gg0
feed the raw stream into a shift register, 16 bit wide and store the 16 bit words as LE
19:49
g3gg0
example
19:50
g3gg0
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11787.msg128638#msg128638
19:50
g3gg0
canon always uses RGGB iirc
19:50
g3gg0
so the first line will be RGRGRGRG and the second GBGBGBGB
19:50
Bertl
okay, but it doesn't (at the moment) support reordering or similar?
19:51
Bertl
e.g. swapping columns or rows
19:51
g3gg0
i am currently reworking the RAWI metadata block to support defining various other modes
19:51
g3gg0
ah i see
19:51
g3gg0
if you need smth like that, let me know.
19:52
g3gg0
so you would need a field that denotes the orientation of the sensor data
19:52
Bertl
it might come very handy with the Cmosis sensors, if you don't want/need to reconstruct the image in the camera
19:52
g3gg0
sure, thats easily implemented
19:52
g3gg0
it only has to taken into account when converting MLV->DNG
19:52
Bertl
because they send data as 0, 128, 256 ... 1, 129, 257, ...
19:53
g3gg0
?
19:53
Bertl
that's columns
19:53
g3gg0
they interlace colums?
19:53
Bertl
kind of, there are up to 64 LVDS channels on existing Cmosis sensors
19:54
Bertl
and they basically split a line (or several) up into evenly spaced chunks
19:54
g3gg0
the best then would be providing a pixelmap block
19:54
g3gg0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQ2MOkAZTFHdHJraTVTOEpmNEIwTVlKd0dHVi1ULUE&usp=drive_web#gid=1
19:55
g3gg0
on the first page you see an example file layout
19:55
g3gg0
files have to start with a header
19:55
g3gg0
contains basic infos about its content
19:55
g3gg0
then info blocks that describe the payload format, the lens settings etc
19:56
g3gg0
and later you will see video / audio blocks and info blocks in any order
19:56
Bertl
okay, how are the blocks chained?
19:56
g3gg0
there are only two blocks - beside video data of course - that are important. file header "MLVI" and raw data description "RAWI"
19:57
g3gg0
every block has the same basic header format
19:57
g3gg0
see tab "Structures"
19:57
g3gg0
first four bytes: block type, like "MLVI", "LENS", "RAWI" etc
19:57
g3gg0
then four bytes block size
19:58
g3gg0
then 8 bytes timestamp in µsec resolution
19:58
Bertl
okay, I guess it would be great to get a checksum field into most of those structures
19:58
g3gg0
thats the basic structure shared with all blocks (except file header)
19:58
g3gg0
yeah
19:59
g3gg0
99% of our data streams were not checksum-able, so it didnt come into mind to do so ;)
19:59
Bertl
the actual checksumming doesn't need to be fixed in advance, but a 64bit field would help a lot
20:00
g3gg0
i'd add the fields at the end of each block
20:00
Bertl
we can easily do some crc polynomial on the data, which then can be combined if needed
20:00
g3gg0
would keep compatibility with all tools
20:01
Bertl
end is fine as well I guess
20:01
g3gg0
i'd add a CRCI block that explains which CRC to use
20:01
g3gg0
or a field in MLVI
20:01
Bertl
that's an excellent idea
20:01
Bertl
the CRCI block
20:01
g3gg0
then we can opt-in the CRC and also stay open for new algorithms if necessary at all
20:02
Bertl
it would allow to use case specific checksums, from simple to cryptographically strong
20:02
g3gg0
you think about signing?
20:02
Bertl
well, if authenticity is important, it might make sense
20:03
Bertl
for example, we had a very interesting request from a reporter
20:03
Bertl
who asked if we could do encryption, so that not even he would be able to decrypt it, only the new company "at home" (mostly for war zones)
20:03
Bertl
*news
20:04
Bertl
when they want to prevent tampering or similar
20:04
g3gg0
haha cool
20:04
g3gg0
wait
20:05
g3gg0
http://magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10279.0
20:05
g3gg0
RSA
20:06
g3gg0
*RSA enryption support
20:07
Legendin
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20:07
Bertl
there you go :)
20:08
g3gg0
so you can point him to us ;)
20:09
g3gg0
there is close to no request for this, but its there and can be polished if someone needs that
20:10
Bertl
yeah, those are special cases after all, but it is a fair reason
20:11
g3gg0
afk, son demands his dad :)
20:11
Bertl
okay, I have to take a nap, I'm rather exhausted ... thanks a lot for the very informative and pleasant chat, I'll be back later tonight ...
20:12
Bertl
send my best to your son :)
20:12
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
20:12
g3gg0
sure, sleep well. we will see us :)
20:12
g3gg0
cya
20:14
troy_s
Bertl_zZ: I love that encryption idea.
20:14
troy_s
That's damn brilliant to have a reporter sign their footage and encrypt it.
20:29
comradekingu
g3gg0: maybe it could be combined with https://www.martus.org/
20:45
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21:45
se6astian|away
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21:56
mars_
95k, so close
21:58
se6astian
I think we can make it!
21:58
mars_
yes, we can!
21:59
se6astian
are we austrians or austricans?!
21:59
se6astian
or austricants :)
21:59
mars_
cans!
22:08
wescotte
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22:11
wescotte
Wow! Great last two days!
22:18
wescotte
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22:30
g3gg0
re
22:31
g3gg0
anyone having a plot of the money flow from the beginning?
22:32
se6astian
http://crowdlogs.com/project/axiom-beta-the-first-open-digital-cinema-camera
22:36
mars_
cool
22:44
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
22:46
Bertl
back now ...
22:47
g3gg0
wow!
22:47
g3gg0
thx se6astian
22:48
Bertl
where crowdlogs is of course not realtime, and we seem to have entered the second hot phase, probably thanks to your (ML) excellent PR
22:53
se6astian
yes you can clearly see in the graph when ML started encouraging people to support AXIOM
22:53
se6astian
and when this was placed on the ML frontpage
22:54
se6astian
I think (even though we are not 100% there yet) that without you (ML) we would not have made it
22:54
dmjnova
wow, we broke a lot of their stats
22:54
se6astian
ok time for bed, already up since 5:30AM :)
22:55
se6astian
night night!
22:55
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
22:56
Bertl
sleep well!
22:59
g3gg0
yeah now when seeing the plot. WOW
22:59
g3gg0
impressive support through our userbase
23:00
g3gg0
sleep well, se6astian
23:00
Bertl
yes, so I wouldn't worry about your Beta cameras :)
23:01
g3gg0
yay :D
23:01
Bertl
have you decided (as developers) what configurations you'd prefer?
23:02
g3gg0
not at all yet :)
23:03
g3gg0
where a1ex is looking into getting the most out of the sensor, i tend to look into raw recording
23:03
Bertl
because I think it would make sense to focus on a specific variant and try to get early betas to you ASAP
23:04
Bertl
(which may later be exchanged against final versions)
23:05
g3gg0
so i'd stick to a1exs opinion. he looked very deep into sensor details and how good those are
23:05
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23:06
Bertl
so a preference for the CMV12k probably on MicroZed as backend then, yes?
23:07
g3gg0
gigabit ethernet is working on beta?
23:07
Bertl
yes, but not at full performance without FPGA support (which isn't there yet)
23:07
Bertl
you get about 560-580k
23:08
g3gg0
ah okay
23:09
Bertl
but gigabit is way to slow, even at full performance for recording
23:09
Bertl
10G would kind of work for low quality :)
23:10
g3gg0
nah just hoped to see some more bandwidth output than SD card :D
23:10
g3gg0
dont have an atomos
23:11
Bertl
we are working on a solution for that as well, no worries
23:12
Bertl
if you're tricky, you can use both SD cards, internal and one on the external SD interface at up to 50M/s
23:12
Bertl
(with fast cards)
23:12
g3gg0
that would be a solution, yeah
23:13
g3gg0
i did a lot of magic with ARM cores, but never touched FPGAs
23:14
g3gg0
so i am curious how both worlds could be combined for reasonable performance
23:15
g3gg0
but thats solvable :)
23:19
g3gg0
ok BTT. sensor type: i have no clue which one to start with. i guess the one which promises best quality
23:21
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23:21
Bertl
that is a good answert, but I have no clue which one that would be :)
23:22
Bertl
the KAC looks quite interesting on paper but we haven't had a chance to test it yet
23:22
Bertl
the Cmosis has been tested, so you probably know the quality better than we do
23:23
Bertl
anyway, nothing which needs to be decided tonight, but maybe have a chat about that in the next week or so
23:24
g3gg0
i'd definitely stick to a1ex word
23:24
g3gg0
you make four dark shots and he tells you how good the sensor is :)
23:25
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23:28
Bertl
he had the KAC on his chart, but I do not remember if it was just projected from the datasheet or the result of actual testing
23:29
wescotte
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23:30
Bertl
in any case, danieel should be able to take some samples with the KAC, as he has built a camera with that sensor, IIRC
23:30
g3gg0
i'll speak to him soon
23:30
g3gg0
a1ex has itnernet trouble atm
23:30
Bertl
ouch
23:30
g3gg0
should be fixed during next week
23:33
Bertl
great!
00:03
Q_
So I wanted to look at the raw samples from the CMV12000 that someone posted on the ML forum and points to footage.apertus.org, but that requires a login?
00:13
Bertl
that's mostly because it is read/write access at the moment, do you know what particular file it is/was, I can probably make it accessible without password
00:14
Bertl
or is it a general link to 'footage', because in this case, we should wait for se6astian
00:21
Q_
The link was to: http://footage.apertus.org/AXIOM%20Alpha%20footage/ML/
00:22
Q_
I wanted to look at those dark frames.
00:28
Bertl
okay, give me a second
00:34
troy_s
Bertl: Congrats.
00:37
troy_s
Bertl: That chart shape isn't ML. That shape is every single funding campaign ever.
00:39
Bertl
really?
00:39
Legendin
left the channel
00:39
troy_s
Bertl: Really
00:39
troy_s
Almost creepily so
00:40
troy_s
Bertl: Every single campaign successful or failure, that hits a threshold of contributions looks precisely like that curvr
00:40
troy_s
Go figure.
00:40
troy_s
Bertl: Looking for another sample
00:40
Bertl
so it is coincidence that the knee points match the ML announcements?
00:42
troy_s
More or less.
00:42
troy_s
Every crowdfun goes through a surge, a plateau, then a surge
00:42
troy_s
There was an exhaustive discussion when Ubuntu edge happened
00:42
troy_s
It is a very familiar s curve
00:46
troy_s
I think there is an odd correlation between entry curve and exit too
00:49
Bertl
okay, in any case, great to have the ML folks on-board
00:51
Bertl
Q_: files will show up here: http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/ALPHA/ML/
00:52
Bertl
I will notify se6astian tomorrow to find a proper solution, the server uses nginx and I have no clue where this beast is configured
00:53
Bertl
it will take some time till all files are there
00:54
troy_s
Bertl: It is great to have ML on the same side. Some top minds there.