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| 02:02 | lab-bot | Bertl created T200: Remote Control Display Size. http://lab.apertus.org/T200
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| 02:25 | troy_s | Bertl: Beep. What speeds do you need for 4k raw at the prescribed frame rates?
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| 02:25 | troy_s | (As in what would an ideal protocol / hardware combo offer?)
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| 02:26 | Bertl | with speeds you mean bandwidth?
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| 02:27 | Bertl | (or what is it you're looking for?)
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| 02:29 | troy_s | Yes.
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| 02:29 | troy_s | Bandwidth
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| 02:30 | Bertl | well, let's do the math then, we want 4k raw, i.e. 4096x3072 pixel
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| 02:30 | Bertl | we also want 12bit (maximum on the CMV12k)
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| 02:30 | troy_s | So a word of data per pixel.
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| 02:30 | troy_s | At 300fps?
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| 02:30 | Bertl | and we probably want 25 or 30 FPS, yes?
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| 02:31 | Bertl | it can do up to 150FPS at 12bit IIRC
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| 02:31 | Bertl | so we want to calculate for the highest framerate or for "normal" framerates?
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| 02:32 | Bertl | the highest sensor rate is at 10bit with 300FPS, IIRC
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| 02:32 | Bertl | that would be about 17.6 Gigabit/s
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| 02:33 | Bertl | without any framing, encoding or checksums
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| 02:34 | Bertl | the bandwidth itself is not that problematic, but transferring it over a reasonable number of "wires" is tricky
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| 02:35 | troy_s | In your estimation, all protocol checks in, your ceiling would be around where?
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| 02:35 | troy_s | <20 Gbit?
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| 02:35 | troy_s | 18-19?
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| 02:35 | Bertl | add 25% encoding and 5-10% checksum/crc
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| 02:35 | troy_s | Yikers.
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| 02:35 | troy_s | So 35%+
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| 02:36 | Bertl | so around 24Gigabit on wire
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| 02:36 | troy_s | Which puts us in what domain? Quad SDI?
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| 02:36 | Bertl | yes, quad SDI should work, dual 12G SDI also
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| 02:36 | Bertl | but that is absolute maxium we are talking about
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| 02:37 | Bertl | I don't think it is realistic to make a movie with 150/300 FPS
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| 02:37 | troy_s | 6g and 12g SDI are still in rec form I believe.
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| 02:37 | troy_s | (Not quite a standard ala AC wireless)
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| 02:38 | Bertl | yep, not finished yet
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| 02:38 | troy_s | I think they have settled more or less
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| 02:38 | troy_s | I wonder what the phantom uses.
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| 02:39 | troy_s | 3G-SDI
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| 02:40 | troy_s | âThe three main 3G HD-SDI video outputs support dual-link 4K video and advanced scaling when set to 1080p.â
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| 02:40 | troy_s | So really, at that data thruput, it is all onboard for the foreseeable future. Striped or otherwise.
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| 03:22 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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| 04:53 | troy_s | Is there a time code library out there? (For actual time code audio, not the numbers.)
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| 05:45 | danieeel | troy_s: phantom does record to internal storage, and the output is a playout only at standard speed
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| 05:47 | danieeel | troy_s: do you know google? https://github.com/x42/libltc
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| 05:50 | troy_s | danieeel: Aware of the Phantom. I was wondering what they offered for outs.
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| 05:51 | danieeel | you have to decide if you are talking about raw out or video out
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| 10:30 | se6astian | good morning
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| 12:28 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 14:22 | surami | hi!
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| 14:23 | surami | is it possible to make the Beta body that kind, that the side panel could be interchangeable?
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| 14:23 | surami | i mean like this: do 1 for example for 3 hdmi connection
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| 14:24 | surami | and another one for 1 hdmi + 2 sdi connection
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| 14:24 | Bertl | I think that is already planned
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| 14:25 | surami | i see, ok
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| 16:56 | even | hi guys =)
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| 16:56 | even | how's it going?
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| 16:59 | Bertl | all fine it seems, and for you?
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| 17:01 | even | nice to hear! well i have a few days off from work so i thought i say hi to u guys and have a look what's trending in here =)
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| 17:05 | PRN | Hi Bertl
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| 17:08 | PRN | "I don't think it is realistic to make a movie with 150/300 FPS" As a film maker, after Dynamic range my priority will be camera's ability to do high speed shots
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| 17:08 | PRN | I expect my goto camera todo atleast 120fps
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| 17:09 | PRN | And high speed believe is one of the prime reasons why Red cameras are a huge hit
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| 17:09 | PRN | your comments are appreciated :-)
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| 17:10 | even | if you guys need something to relax dem brains 4 a few minutes. watch dis! mindblowing it is http://vimeo.com/113094940
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| 17:12 | Bertl | PRN: what I meant is, for high speed photography 150/300 FPS is usually way too slow and for making "a normal movie" the data you get when you film everything at 150 FPS is probably not worth the efford, as you would have a lot of post processing to get to sane shutter times
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| 17:13 | Bertl | but, hat doesn't mean that you won't do 300FPS (or even more at lower resolutions) in a special setup
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| 17:18 | PRN | hehe, yeah even tarsem singh wont do the whole film at 300 lol....peace
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| 19:07 | even_ | prn: right =)
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| 19:09 | even_ | fps ahoi! beware of the flying shrimp! :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkaIoH6Um60
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| 19:15 | even_ | by the way. is there someone who already startet a design for the heatplate to sensor to peltier thingyding?
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| 19:19 | Bertl | not sure
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| 19:36 | even_ | so we want copper i guess? would it make sense to pipe/lead the heat to the bottom of the camera? the idea is to connect it directly to the bottom plate that holds the rods or mounting plate. basicly in the space betweteen the camera and the tripod
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| 19:37 | even_ | would be nice to have the peltier below the camera but i'm not sure if it is possible according to space cables etc.
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| 19:38 | Bertl | copper or aluminum, depending on how important weight is
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| 19:39 | Bertl | bottom is always a bad idea, mostly because heat has the tendency to go up
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| 19:39 | Bertl | so you are working at least against convection
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| 19:40 | even_ | yeah right, well it was only an idea
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| 19:43 | even_ | what about best of bothsides? basicly a heatplate that goes from the bottom all the way to the top?
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| 19:44 | even_ | so we get the possibility to connect the peltier at the bottom and the top?
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| 19:44 | even_ | would that be possible internal space wise?
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| 19:45 | Bertl | depends on the enclosure I guess
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| 20:07 | even_ | while looking at this.. https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/Pcbstack02-V3.jpg
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| 20:07 | lab-bot | V3: Rename the "Dictator" to "Governator" ? Come Vote http://lab.apertus.org/V3
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| 20:08 | even_ | pcb wise our contact area for the heatplate would be below the image sensor holder board through a hole? or directly on top/infront of the sensor?
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| 20:19 | even_ | or a cnced frame around it would lead to heat differences in the middle of the sensor i guess
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| 20:25 | even_ | so maybe best of both worlds to both sides of the camera. i like the 2 sided idea cause it gives more freedom. if your not going to use a peltier you still have the option to put a heatsink on top, sides or bottom depending on which direction we go with the heat transfer.
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| 20:39 | philippej | watch diy powder coating : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNmRLIVEU10
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| 21:32 | se6astian | good night
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| 21:34 | intracube | o/
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| 21:34 | surami | good night!
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| 21:38 | intracube | early test render of apertus control variant: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y_1xnz7EUUQ/VH4_Dt_pBhI/AAAAAAAAA8Q/j26oqv22KEI/w854-h480-no/apertus_control.jpg
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| 21:39 | Bertl | nice, what's the size/resolution of the LCD display?
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| 21:39 | intracube | Bertl: whatever you want it to be :)
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| 21:39 | intracube | in the 3d model it's an image plane with a 640x480 texture
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| 21:41 | intracube | Bertl: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-APzMz49IM_8/VH5AHhcRAyI/AAAAAAAAA8k/EJI2ARMShJI/w640-h480-no/apertus_control_display.png
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| 21:46 | intracube | hmf, and I've only -just- noticed that the menu items don't line up with the buttons
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| 21:48 | Bertl | maybe try without heavily smothed fonts, because that will eat up a lot processing power
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| 21:48 | Bertl | best would be pixel accurate fonts and symbols without any smoothing
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| 21:48 | davidak | it looks really nice
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| 21:48 | intracube | Bertl: couldn't all the text and icons be pre-rendered?
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| 21:48 | intracube | davidak: thanks
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| 21:49 | intracube | Bertl: if you've ever seen winamp skins
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| 21:49 | Bertl | icons, probably, text, unlikely
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| 21:49 | davidak | could font-awesome be used here?
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| 21:49 | intracube | Bertl: what program, software will generate the GUI?
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| 21:50 | intracube | I guess not fully fledged Xorg
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| 21:50 | intracube | googes font-awesome
| | 21:50 | Bertl | it will be a C library running on a PIC32 microcontroller
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| 21:50 | intracube | *googles even
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| 21:50 | Bertl | so far far away from xorg and typical font rendering
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| 21:50 | intracube | Bertl: yep
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| 21:51 | intracube | davidak: font-awesome looks like it's fairly processor intensive?
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| 21:51 | intracube | Bertl: custom C library or existing?
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| 21:51 | Bertl | depends on the hardware and what we actually find
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| 21:51 | davidak | http://fortawesome.github.io/Font-Awesome/
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| 21:53 | intracube | it says it doesn't need JS, yet with noscript blocking it, it's not rendering
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| 21:53 | Bertl | I doubt we will have a web browser running on the remote control :)
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| 21:56 | intracube | Bertl: if at all possible, having all icons/text/buttons as pre-rendered images would be good
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| 21:57 | intracube | it wouldn't even have to do any alpha blending if done carefully
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| 21:57 | Bertl | intracube: assume 2 megabyte for code and read only data, 512 kilobyte memory and try to implement the interface in C, whatever you can make work with those limitations should work on the remote control as well
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| 21:58 | Bertl | note that a display buffer for 640x480 (assuming an RGB display) already consumes about 400kbyte memory :)
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| 21:58 | intracube | 512k? that's not a lot
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| 21:59 | intracube | why so limited?
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| 21:59 | intracube | Bertl: so make it greyscale only - 256 colours
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| 21:59 | Bertl | well, of course we can add memory and flash, etc, but I don't see that this would make sense for such a limited interface
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| 21:59 | intracube | could even be much less than 256 actually
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| 22:41 | intracube | because I'm very bored;
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| 22:41 | intracube | the character set for the display: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-DggV4DaimnY/VH5NxcM1fXI/AAAAAAAAA84/Ic0nuyO-n7k/w250-h299-no/apertus_control_characterset_4bit.png
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| 22:43 | intracube | 250x299, 74,750 pixels, 4bit per pixel (16 levels) = ~37kB
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| 22:45 | intracube | hmm, I missed out a : from the characters
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| 22:45 | intracube | #nitpick
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| 22:48 | even_ | the big one behind the 9 works too =)
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| 22:50 | intracube | even_: ?
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| 22:51 | even_ | nevermind i tried to be funny ^^
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| 22:51 | intracube | :)
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| 22:52 | intracube | Bertl: IMO it's important to make the interface look as modern as possible
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| 22:53 | intracube | if 'pixel accurate fonts' means non-antialised, that only works at small sizes
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| 22:53 | intracube | the large timecode characters would look really bad
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| 22:53 | intracube | it's nearly 2015 and aliased text is very 1980s :)
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| 22:57 | intracube | Bertl: another question if you've got time; does the 512kB include the frame-buffer or is it separate?
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