#apertus IRC Channel Logs

off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!

good morning

sebastian created T113: CMV12000 PCB module pogress. http://lab.apertus.org/T113

updated wishlist table

gotta go

davidak created T115: Breadcrumb Links don't work. http://lab.apertus.org/T115

evening se6astian

Hello Bertl :-)

sebastian closed T118: Check-in CMOSIS Datasheets to the Beta Repository as "Resolved". http://lab.apertus.org/T118

can anyone tell my what "spite" mean in the realm of bug / task status ?

philippej: � So, I think features like these actually make the software better, which is why you can close tasks "Out of Spite" in Maniphest and the submit button in Differential is labeled "Clowncopterize". Plus, they're fun to build.�

I see

As in if you kept bothering me about something and I tried to make my case but you kept at it

:-)

But more edged.

I think it is hilarious

Without the f-bombs

(Although I could see a closure due to a nasty hard-to-find bug being spiteful too.

this and the fact that it's particularly well written and thought

on install, it gives you advice on everything, like "the size of your mysql cache is a bit too small", etc ...

� deliberately hurt, annoy, or offend (someone).�

Hopefully that translates better for you.

Breadcrumb links not working philippej ?

troy_s: I think they should work, but I haven't seen any labels for that in the source of the pages

you have at least 10 add on modules to manage

if a page is part of the menu the breadcrumb will show

else it won't

what would be a decent behavior, that's the question

This is slick http://files.apertus.org/controller-simulator/

Sony's is extremely well designed graphically speaking.

lab-bot: what's up pal?

but it will notify some more tasks status changes

On MOX http://major-kong.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/a-mox-on-both-your-house-formats.html

sebastian reopened T30: apertus.org: email notification for comment publish as "Open". http://lab.apertus.org/T30

About MOX, I see the need for some kind of pdf-x for image sequences (fail- and idiot- proof, reduced feature set from a more general purpose format)

philippej: I worry that MOX has too much of a myopic view on Adobe products. ICCs etc.

philippej: Your suggestion is a good point, but at that very point you make an ideological judgment on who / what is your target. To optimize for that will ostracize the other designed targets.

I'm not taking the pdf/x example because it as created by adobe, but more for it's "less is more" philosophy that works extremely well.

Less is never more.

Fsck Mies Van Der Rohe

(Uniquely Industrial-Modernist. :) )

then let's say, reducing features sometimes ease of communication between parties

Sure. And I totally agree.

Everyone (much like Apertus) is going to have an opinion. The challenging question is who do you listen to?

And if you implement OCIO, you gain them and alienate the Adobe users he is appeasing.

philippej: Sense?

seems that pdf/x worked because it was a consortium of companies

PDF 1.4 is everything I've ever had to take to an offset with.

that or because adobe won almost all the printed media tools

Why did they win?

pdf/x is a subset of 1.4 as far as I understand it

Hence ICCs etc.

The issue is that when they branched out into motion picture stuffs, they chose ecosystem compatibilty as a design goal and thereby crippled all of photographic imagin henceforth.

Sucks entirely for photography work at this juncture, yet not too many can see why.

(All legacy reasons.)

troy_s: hi there, reading with great interest :) is there a photo-image handling software that you like (replacing Photoshop?)

__anton__: I'm probably worthy to ignore. But the question is moored in context and to appreciate why I made the statement, you sort of have to unwind all of the implicit crap that folks speak of without stating.

philippej: The "industry" are the folks in most need of interchange. A file format wrapper isn't the most ideal ever, but that takes a little bit of understanding to see why. You simply are never dealing with codecs nor kitchen sink apps.

troy_s: I can probably ignored here as well, I'm a java programmer at a bank :) Yet I'm interested to hear if there's specifically a photo-image handling piece of software that works with screne-referred intensities

__anton__: Do you have an image editor handy?

Perfect.

Create a canvas. Fill it with a value of neutral grey of say 55 on a 255 8 bit scale.

__anton__: Let me know when you have done this.

Make a fuzzy brush.

Set R and B to full for a magenta

In a row like roman numerals.

(Must be a fuzzy brush of course.)

Now take a full green stroke and cross through all of them. Finally, take a full yellow stroke and also cross through them.

Purple slats, full green and full yellow intensity cross beams.

got a fence :)

In particular, around the edges of the blurry strokes?

i see that my horizontal sausages got squeezed when they cross the vertical bars

If you look closely, you will see a distinct fringing around the purple.

Yes?

You should see it with the saturated magenta crossing the grey, the green crossing the magenta, and the cyan.

That's the result of a non-linear blend.

That bending results in nasty ass bad math because the math being done is _not_ based on any sort of real-world physics, which we define as our baseline of "correct".

yes smth about gamma I guess

Indeed. Gamma is a uniform curve. A better term is transfer curve or tone response curve because not all non-linear curves are uniform. Some are a couple of formulas, some are more.

"Ok I get it... we need linear (or to be more precise, radiometrically linear ratios) of data values to imitate the real world."

yes

What kind do you have?

Great.

It is _curved_

But as you know, your D40, even though it isn't the uber super camera you could buy if you wanted to

It can probably capture a decent six or seven stops above a middle grey card shot.

Yes, sounds about right

It would be 120-124 ish

That value ends up at 0.2

With me so far?

yeah, I started looking into this recently when you spoke of OpenEXR, I think I get it

Case problem 1:

0.2 + 0.2 = 0.4

philippej updated subscribers of T121: find/build a method to publish individual news on different social media/newsletter/websites. http://lab.apertus.org/T121

Only two and a bit stops!

And we can't really get that data back because we only have the jpeg linearization to invert.

troy_s it would be really great to have articles on what you often explain here

If we load them in GIMP, we are still stuck in display referred land - 0 to 1.

But as we saw in the GIMP demo, we _must_ have linearized values in order to do an over correctly.

and we map middle grey to 0.2

good night everyone !

__anton__: Does that make the issue any clearer?

Thanks, Troy, that's a very accessible explanation

But all of that crap I just sort of rolled through extremely swiftly, takes a bit of reasoning as to _why_ you need to control those things.

And that isn't easily accessible to everyone, worse if you are only used to Photoshop or some other graphic-design centric application.

Have you ever used an NLE app and done a dissolve?

Now ask yourself how those values were blended.

that dissolve is as broken as your magenta over grey

Hence the idea of a video dissovle versus say, a film dissolve (or more accurately, a nonlinear blend versus a more correct radiometrically linear blend.)

:)

What about photo?

Very very very very very few to the best of my knowledge.

B) the above "simple" explanation takes quite a bit of grounding foundation.

Which are specifically, processing tools.

Which opens up a huge can of worms

What happens if we do?

A) Image manipulation / blending / over / etc.

and suddenly it begins to make sense as to why you never grade mid pipeline, but rather only at the very very end.

Bingo.

Anything with interpolation.

And anything that requires traversal is utterly going to be broken in a non-linear format.

__anton__: Here's a cool question...

Now visualize making a dissolve that runs a diagonal line from top to bottom ... a dissolve down to another strip.

So how the hell do you do a dissolve using that sort of GUI element?

Rebelj12a created T122: Reorganization. http://lab.apertus.org/T122

:)

If you have a linear diagonal time curve, you have to bend that in accordance with your non-linear output.

And likewise, gradients are challenging as hell. If you traverse from red to green, you ideally have to do that on a linear model in order to get correct blending, but if you go from dark red to say bright green, you have to deal with the color traversal (the red to the green) in isolation from the intensity traversal (dark to light)

Rebelj12a created T123: Add section or page for Open Source Arduino. http://lab.apertus.org/T123

Rebelj12a: LOL

Usually the day after a shoot isn't the worst, its the 2nd day after that kills me. However today.. its really bad for some reason. Might be because my arm actually physically gave out last night. Might have pushed too hard.

troy_s: yes, it does. Indeed very interesting :)

Troy is full of fantastically interesting and informative information on color, gamma and curves.

Just a few years of making mistakes.

__anton__: A gradient is an identical dilemma that forces us to examine the two halves of color: Chromaticity (the hue or color of a color) and Luminance (the intensity of the color)

there was a time when I wondered why anybody would need anything apart from RGB triplets at all. Hue? Who needs a hue? :-)

new article released

time for bed now

The online simulation remote controller structure. Would that be for use on a smartphone? Or properietary touch screen remote?

No no i mean the end product remote

Basically, I want to know what kind of hardware interface screen im working with first before making suggestions.

There was a thing already broken down on the wiki with some elements

ah ok, ill check the wiki. Yes i know how the remote system and simulators work, ive played with the arri

No no i meant in the progress article sebastion just posted. Theres the Axiom Beta Controller Menu Simulator. The Axiom Beta Controller will it be ios, android, or open source / proprietary.

most likely it will be PIC32MZ based, with an SPI attached LCD and a bunch of buttons/dials

Ok will the screen support multitouch?

too bad ok then

Does it need multitouch?

oh buttons ok

It mentioned remote so

Sure.

on the camera itself, its the devil

Ah ok ^_^

(at least that's what I understood :)

ala http://assets.pro.sony.eu/Web/menu-simulator/index.html

my favorite the alexa

That wheel mmm

probably nothing fixed yet, too early

but do not limit yourself by planned features, we will sooner or later get all features which make sense

Well yes, menu design and feature design go hand in hand with fixed buttons and the like. Ah ill just plan design for future easier that way.