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| 04:56 | Bertl_oO | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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| 09:47 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 12:10 | BAndiT1983 | Roopal08, i'm online from now on
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| 16:37 | Roopal08 | Hey <BAndiT1983>, I will share with you the updated proposal in an hour, and will discuss about it. Actually I am out for dinner.
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| 16:46 | BAndiT1983 | alright, have a nice meal
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| 17:23 | intracube | it'd be good to get peoples view on OLPFs
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| 17:24 | intracube | maybe it's something to bring up at the next irc meeting
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| 17:24 | intracube | fwiw, I think it's something that has to be the default
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| 17:25 | intracube | it's telling that one of the first youtube comments is about moire/aliasing on the water sequences
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| 17:27 | intracube | there's plenty of criticism about the absence of an OLPF on some of Black Magic's cameras
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| 17:29 | intracube | other than rare speciality cameras (Nikon D800?) where you have to choose your shooting subject carefully
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| 17:30 | intracube | I can't see why you'd choose not to have one
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| 17:31 | intracube | and the extra detail is essentially false detail
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| 17:32 | intracube | and does this carry through to audio sampling?
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| 17:33 | intracube | "lets ignore Nyquist and digitise the signal unfiltered"
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| 17:33 | BAndiT1983 | OLPF was requested several times in the past already, it's definitely an important topic
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| 17:37 | intracube | BAndiT1983: it feels like it's being sidelined a bit
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| 17:38 | intracube | in the "maybe" category rather than "definitely, unless the buyer requests a camera without"
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| 17:40 | Bertl_oO | if it would be _that_ simple, we'd probably already have that option :)
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| 17:41 | BAndiT1983 | what are the prerequisites to attach such thing?
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| 17:41 | Bertl_oO | for a start, let's find a suitable OLPF for the CMV12k which can be easily used with the current design without any changes
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| 17:42 | Bertl_oO | then let's find one which is affordable too :)
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| 17:44 | intracube | $300 seems to be a rough figure
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| 17:44 | intracube | and it's likely there are already filters that would match the pixel pitch of the sensor
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| 17:45 | intracube | and even if it was $600, if it's a necessary element (which it is), it needs to be factored in :)
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| 17:45 | Bertl_oO | as I said, stop speculating and hand waving, let's find one which is available at a reasonable price
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| 17:45 | BAndiT1983 | red ones are 195$
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| 17:45 | intracube | Bertl_oO: I'm hand waving?
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| 17:47 | Bertl_oO | well, what do you call it when you say "it is essential, add it!" without putting any work into it?
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| 17:48 | Bertl_oO | if you consider it essential, spend the extra time to find a proper solution, that's what we do all the time ...
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| 17:48 | intracube | Bertl_oO: I'm just trying to get a debate on it going :)
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| 17:48 | intracube | BAndiT1983: http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc-standard-olpf
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| 17:48 | intracube | yep, seems very reasonable, at a quick glance
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| 17:48 | BAndiT1983 | they have 2 types for same price, low light and that one
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| 17:48 | Bertl_oO | well, we had one a long time ago, and it ended with ... nothing affordable which would easily fit ... we need to do some testing ... not really required ATM
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| 17:49 | intracube | Bertl_oO: and it'd be good to get feedback from other backers
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| 17:49 | Bertl_oO | I'd be happy to have a solution which can be provided to our backers, so go ahead and find one :)
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| 17:49 | intracube | if 90% of people say they don't feel they want one, then that's something to go on
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| 17:50 | intracube | and can be weighted into the design process
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| 17:50 | RexOrCine[m] | We can't make our own OPLF?
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| 17:51 | BAndiT1983 | creator of SHOODAK was also asking for that feature, i've hoped that we could get some snapshots from beta with OLPF for gsoc task
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| 17:51 | BAndiT1983 | http://www.optics-online.com/lpf.asp
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| 17:51 | Bertl_oO | RexOrCine[m]: paper and butter?
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| 17:52 | intracube | there was also a company called Mozaic
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| 17:53 | intracube | http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/olpf.html
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| 17:54 | BAndiT1983 | 300-400$
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| 17:54 | BAndiT1983 | http://store.mosaicengineering.com/Video-Aliasing-Filters_c_7.html
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| 17:54 | intracube | yeah, significantly more
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| 17:59 | RexOrCine[m] | Shall I run a poll to see in more detail what sort of demand there is for real-time AA as opposed to being rectified in post?
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| 17:59 | intracube | might be possible to organise a bulk order discount
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| 18:00 | intracube | RexOrCine[m]: that would be great
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| 18:01 | intracube | but realtime AA sounds like digital processing
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| 18:01 | BAndiT1983 | hm, would it be possible to remove moire in post, like OLPF does it?
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| 18:01 | intracube | I don't think it's possible
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| 18:02 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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| 18:02 | RexOrCine[m] | Ok, normally run them over 24 hours, so...
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| 18:02 | intracube | there are some methods for reducing, but there's almost always some residual banding left
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| 18:02 | intracube | or you might loose more detail than if you used an OLPF
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| 18:02 | BAndiT1983 | just an interesting finding: http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-canon-develops-variable-optical-low-pass-filter/
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| 18:03 | BAndiT1983 | the whole OLPF discussion on the internet has no real resukt, some like it, some like it when they remove it from camera
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| 18:03 | BAndiT1983 | *result
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| 18:05 | se6astian | thats why I planned the OLPF to be removeable in the beta
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| 18:05 | se6astian | but its a bit tricky
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| 18:06 | se6astian | as you still need IR/UV cut off filter without OLPF
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| 18:06 | se6astian | if you use an OLPF its traditionally also an IR/UV cut off filter
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| 18:06 | se6astian | but its unlikely you will find those two with matching thickness and density
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| 18:06 | se6astian | so swapping will change FFD
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| 18:07 | se6astian | and therefore require the lens mount to be changed
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| 18:07 | intracube | se6astian: would it matter to double up on an IR/UV?
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| 18:07 | se6astian | yes, that will change FFD even more
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| 18:07 | intracube | eg, all cameras have an IR/UV filter, some have an additional OLPF
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| 18:07 | intracube | I wonder how Nikon D800E owners deal with it
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| 18:08 | se6astian | does the D800E have an OLPF that you can just pop out/in?
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| 18:10 | intracube | hm, seems not :/
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| 18:10 | BAndiT1983 | d800e is filterless
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| 18:10 | BAndiT1983 | "Nikon started the mainstream AA-filterless trend with the D800E and its AA-filtered D800 twin. "
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| 18:11 | se6astian | then nikon does not have the issue we have currently
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| 18:11 | intracube | yup
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| 18:11 | intracube | although it seems like it's optional on some of the Red cameras
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| 18:12 | Roopal08 | Hey <BAndiT1983>, can you pleasereview my proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1045eAdGk0nZ7htHkII3rMT186wO7m3fdq3Ev_Rmz0HE/edit?usp=sharing
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| 18:12 | RexOrCine[m] | Poll will run for four days - https://twitter.com/apertususer/status/848583403989598209
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| 18:12 | se6astian | what is a "real-time filter"?
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| 18:12 | BAndiT1983 | Roopal08: i'm on it, just give me a moment
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| 18:13 | intracube | se6astian: I think RexOrCine[m] meant a physical filter instead of a post production digial filter?
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| 18:14 | RexOrCine[m] | Yes.
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| 18:14 | se6astian | thats what I guessed, but it sounds weird
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| 18:14 | intracube | RexOrCine[m]: maybe change real-time for physical?
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| 18:14 | se6astian | better yes
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| 18:14 | se6astian | or just remove the real-time, we have "optical" already there anyway
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| 18:14 | intracube | "How important is a physical Optical Low-Pass Filter (OLPF/AA-filter)"
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| 18:15 | intracube | "How important is an Optical Low-Pass Filter (OLPF/AA-filter)"
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| 18:15 | Roopal08 | Can <se6astian>, <RexOrCine[m]> also review my proposal
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| 18:19 | RexOrCine[m] | That means we lost those two votes - https://twitter.com/apertususer/status/848584997388812289 settle down man.
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| 18:23 | BAndiT1983 | Roopal08: you were too fast, i was just typing some reply to my own comment, but you've resolved it so it's gone :)
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| 18:23 | Roopal08 | Oh. Sorry .
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| 18:23 | BAndiT1983 | i just wanted to say, that i will add OCProcess module as soon as we get some answer from Google about GSoC
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| 18:23 | BAndiT1983 | no problem
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| 18:23 | Roopal08 | oh.
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| 18:24 | intracube | RexOrCine[m]: ok, no worries
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| 18:24 | se6astian | Roopal08: sure, will take a look
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| 18:24 | Roopal08 | So i need not add it in my deliverables ?
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| 18:25 | BAndiT1983 | no, OCProcess will be provided by me, according to your needs, OC has basic framework for UIs, so it's a good thing to see what's required
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| 18:26 | BAndiT1983 | i think i will add some feature which allows to create panels with parameters, ike rawtherapee and darktable do
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| 18:26 | BAndiT1983 | just as example -> https://screenshots.debian.net/screenshots/000/009/564/large.png
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| 18:27 | Roopal08 | ok. I will just integrate my modules with OCProcess
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| 18:28 | BAndiT1983 | this would be already a big task, so don't worry, you won't have stall time
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| 18:29 | BAndiT1983 | but you can still adjust the UI if there is something not fitting the needs
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| 18:29 | intracube | RexOrCine[m]: I didn't realise edits would reset
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| 18:30 | intracube | what were the two early votes for?
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| 18:30 | BAndiT1983 | i will just provide the framework, so you can accomplish the job
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| 18:34 | RexOrCine[m] | Nah you can't edit them mate. This is a long standing issue actually because its been being demanded for years. I suppose Twitter is about trapping someone's thoughts from a specific moment, and it wouldn't be as solid if people were running around editing what they've said.
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| 18:35 | RexOrCine[m] | If we take one vote for "essential" off its total it'll be 100% accurate.
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| 18:36 | intracube | erf, should've left the original then :)
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| 18:36 | BAndiT1983|away | nope, BAndiT1983 still here
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| 18:36 | intracube | and that one vote for essential was mine
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| 18:37 | BAndiT1983|away | no post-factic? ;)
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| 18:39 | Roopal08 | <BAndiT1983|away>, Do i need to add implementation details in my proposal ?
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| 18:39 | BAndiT1983|away | don't think so, this is all part of active phase
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| 18:40 | RexOrCine[m] | Ahh
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| 18:40 | BAndiT1983|away | the proposal looks good overall
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| 18:41 | Roopal08 | Thanks :) . Anything else I can improve upon ?
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| 18:42 | BAndiT1983|away | se6astian is the right one to ask, he learned the GSoC rules by heart ;)
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| 18:44 | BAndiT1983|away | Roopal08: somehow i've missed a reply to my comment about your graphics card, will you use one in the CPU or dedicated one?
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| 18:45 | Roopal08 | I will use the one in the CPU
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| 18:45 | Roopal08 | Do i need a better one ?
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| 18:46 | BAndiT1983|away | possibly not, if something won't work as expected then i can counter-check it on my PC
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| 18:46 | Roopal08 | <se6astian> Do I need to add implementation details in my proposal ? And anything else needed to improve my proposal?
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| 18:47 | Roopal08 | <BAndiT1983|away> Ok.
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| 18:47 | se6astian | implementation details are definitely a good addition
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| 18:48 | BAndiT1983|away | what are implementation details for you?
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| 18:48 | RexOrCine[m] | https://youtu.be/G2aA8n6suKY
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| 18:49 | BAndiT1983|away | reminds me of "The Lawnmower Man"
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| 18:49 | Roopal08 | By implementation details i mean the research papers , which I will follow for learning the algorithms
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| 18:50 | Roopal08 | Green Edge Directed Demosaicing Algorithm : http://www.academia.edu/18351844/Green_Edge_Directed_Demosaicing_Algorithm Efficient, high-quality Bayer demosaic filtering on GPUs : http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/BayerJGT09/
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| 18:50 | Roopal08 | and similar to them for rest
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| 18:50 | BAndiT1983|away | ah, that things, yes, definitely, my impression was something about internal classes
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| 18:51 | Roopal08 | Sure.
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| 18:51 | Roopal08 | Will add them soon
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| 18:51 | BAndiT1983|away | SHOODAK is special case, we have to gather the info afterwards, i just have 1 or 2 files from the creator of it
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| 18:51 | BAndiT1983|away | this one is also important -> http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/BayerJGT09/
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| 18:53 | Roopal08 | Thanks. Will add it
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| 18:58 | se6astian | Roopal08: one more suggestion: please put emphasis on the actual deliverables in the schedule
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| 18:59 | se6astian | like "Code the algorithm" -> deliverable "name" code pushed to github repo
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| 18:59 | se6astian | or similar
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| 19:00 | se6astian | so it is clear what steps in the tasks actually produce quantifiable output
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| 19:00 | Roopal08 | Okay
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| 19:03 | usmankhan | Hello!
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| 19:04 | Bertl_oO | hey usmankhan!
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| 19:05 | usmankhan | Hey Bertl, I have updated my proposal a bit: https://github.com/usmanwardag/gsoc17_proposal/blob/master/proposal.pdf
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| 19:06 | usmankhan | @sebastian, would you mind taking a look at my proposal too please? To see if I am missing on anything?
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| 19:08 | usmankhan | I am still working on refining the language. If anyone can review my proposal for that, I would really appreciate it.
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| 19:09 | Bertl_oO | 2.3 s/the sensors/the switchers/ ?
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| 19:13 | usmankhan | I will correct that
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| 19:14 | Bertl_oO | everything else looks fine for me
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| 19:14 | usmankhan | Ok great, I will see if I can further refine it till tomorrow's deadline
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| 19:15 | Bertl_oO | great!
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| 19:16 | Bertl_oO | off for a nap ... bbl
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| 19:16 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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| 19:17 | Roopal08 | <se6astian> I have updated the proposal with all the changes you suggested. If possible can you go through it once again.
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| 19:17 | se6astian | will do
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| 19:22 | se6astian | Roopal08: what I meant was to clearly separate the deliverables from the rest
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| 19:22 | se6astian | color code, symbol
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| 19:22 | se6astian | extra coloumn
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| 19:22 | se6astian | whatever you find suitable
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| 19:23 | Roopal08 | oh . ok
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| 21:52 | se6astian | good night
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