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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2017/04/02

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Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl_oO
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Bertl_zZ
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09:47
Bertl
morning folks!
10:38
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
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Bertl
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BAndiT1983
Roopal08, i'm online from now on
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16:37
Roopal08
Hey <BAndiT1983>, I will share with you the updated proposal in an hour, and will discuss about it. Actually I am out for dinner.
16:46
BAndiT1983
alright, have a nice meal
16:53
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17:11
intracube_afk
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17:23
intracube
it'd be good to get peoples view on OLPFs
17:24
intracube
maybe it's something to bring up at the next irc meeting
17:24
intracube
fwiw, I think it's something that has to be the default
17:25
intracube
it's telling that one of the first youtube comments is about moire/aliasing on the water sequences
17:27
intracube
there's plenty of criticism about the absence of an OLPF on some of Black Magic's cameras
17:29
intracube
other than rare speciality cameras (Nikon D800?) where you have to choose your shooting subject carefully
17:30
intracube
I can't see why you'd choose not to have one
17:31
intracube
and the extra detail is essentially false detail
17:32
intracube
and does this carry through to audio sampling?
17:33
intracube
"lets ignore Nyquist and digitise the signal unfiltered"
17:33
BAndiT1983
OLPF was requested several times in the past already, it's definitely an important topic
17:37
intracube
BAndiT1983: it feels like it's being sidelined a bit
17:38
intracube
in the "maybe" category rather than "definitely, unless the buyer requests a camera without"
17:40
Bertl_oO
if it would be _that_ simple, we'd probably already have that option :)
17:41
BAndiT1983
what are the prerequisites to attach such thing?
17:41
Bertl_oO
for a start, let's find a suitable OLPF for the CMV12k which can be easily used with the current design without any changes
17:42
Bertl_oO
then let's find one which is affordable too :)
17:44
intracube
$300 seems to be a rough figure
17:44
intracube
and it's likely there are already filters that would match the pixel pitch of the sensor
17:45
intracube
and even if it was $600, if it's a necessary element (which it is), it needs to be factored in :)
17:45
Bertl_oO
as I said, stop speculating and hand waving, let's find one which is available at a reasonable price
17:45
BAndiT1983
red ones are 195$
17:45
intracube
Bertl_oO: I'm hand waving?
17:47
Bertl_oO
well, what do you call it when you say "it is essential, add it!" without putting any work into it?
17:48
Bertl_oO
if you consider it essential, spend the extra time to find a proper solution, that's what we do all the time ...
17:48
intracube
Bertl_oO: I'm just trying to get a debate on it going :)
17:48
intracube
BAndiT1983: http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc-standard-olpf
17:48
intracube
yep, seems very reasonable, at a quick glance
17:48
BAndiT1983
they have 2 types for same price, low light and that one
17:48
Bertl_oO
well, we had one a long time ago, and it ended with ... nothing affordable which would easily fit ... we need to do some testing ... not really required ATM
17:49
intracube
Bertl_oO: and it'd be good to get feedback from other backers
17:49
Bertl_oO
I'd be happy to have a solution which can be provided to our backers, so go ahead and find one :)
17:49
intracube
if 90% of people say they don't feel they want one, then that's something to go on
17:50
intracube
and can be weighted into the design process
17:50
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17:50
RexOrCine[m]
We can't make our own OPLF?
17:51
BAndiT1983
creator of SHOODAK was also asking for that feature, i've hoped that we could get some snapshots from beta with OLPF for gsoc task
17:51
BAndiT1983
http://www.optics-online.com/lpf.asp
17:51
Bertl_oO
RexOrCine[m]: paper and butter?
17:52
intracube
there was also a company called Mozaic
17:53
intracube
http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/olpf.html
17:54
BAndiT1983
300-400$
17:54
BAndiT1983
http://store.mosaicengineering.com/Video-Aliasing-Filters_c_7.html
17:54
intracube
yeah, significantly more
17:59
RexOrCine[m]
Shall I run a poll to see in more detail what sort of demand there is for real-time AA as opposed to being rectified in post?
17:59
intracube
might be possible to organise a bulk order discount
18:00
intracube
RexOrCine[m]: that would be great
18:01
intracube
but realtime AA sounds like digital processing
18:01
BAndiT1983
hm, would it be possible to remove moire in post, like OLPF does it?
18:01
intracube
I don't think it's possible
18:02
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
18:02
RexOrCine[m]
Ok, normally run them over 24 hours, so...
18:02
intracube
there are some methods for reducing, but there's almost always some residual banding left
18:02
intracube
or you might loose more detail than if you used an OLPF
18:02
BAndiT1983
just an interesting finding: http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-canon-develops-variable-optical-low-pass-filter/
18:03
BAndiT1983
the whole OLPF discussion on the internet has no real resukt, some like it, some like it when they remove it from camera
18:03
BAndiT1983
*result
18:05
se6astian
thats why I planned the OLPF to be removeable in the beta
18:05
se6astian
but its a bit tricky
18:06
se6astian
as you still need IR/UV cut off filter without OLPF
18:06
se6astian
if you use an OLPF its traditionally also an IR/UV cut off filter
18:06
se6astian
but its unlikely you will find those two with matching thickness and density
18:06
se6astian
so swapping will change FFD
18:07
se6astian
and therefore require the lens mount to be changed
18:07
intracube
se6astian: would it matter to double up on an IR/UV?
18:07
se6astian
yes, that will change FFD even more
18:07
intracube
eg, all cameras have an IR/UV filter, some have an additional OLPF
18:07
intracube
I wonder how Nikon D800E owners deal with it
18:08
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18:08
se6astian
does the D800E have an OLPF that you can just pop out/in?
18:09
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18:10
intracube
hm, seems not :/
18:10
BAndiT1983
d800e is filterless
18:10
BAndiT1983
"Nikon started the mainstream AA-filterless trend with the D800E and its AA-filtered D800 twin. "
18:11
se6astian
then nikon does not have the issue we have currently
18:11
intracube
yup
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sebix
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18:11
intracube
although it seems like it's optional on some of the Red cameras
18:12
Roopal08
Hey <BAndiT1983>, can you pleasereview my proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1045eAdGk0nZ7htHkII3rMT186wO7m3fdq3Ev_Rmz0HE/edit?usp=sharing
18:12
RexOrCine[m]
Poll will run for four days - https://twitter.com/apertususer/status/848583403989598209
18:12
se6astian
what is a "real-time filter"?
18:12
BAndiT1983
Roopal08: i'm on it, just give me a moment
18:13
intracube
se6astian: I think RexOrCine[m] meant a physical filter instead of a post production digial filter?
18:14
RexOrCine[m]
Yes.
18:14
se6astian
thats what I guessed, but it sounds weird
18:14
intracube
RexOrCine[m]: maybe change real-time for physical?
18:14
se6astian
better yes
18:14
se6astian
or just remove the real-time, we have "optical" already there anyway
18:14
intracube
"How important is a physical Optical Low-Pass Filter (OLPF/AA-filter)"
18:15
intracube
"How important is an Optical Low-Pass Filter (OLPF/AA-filter)"
18:15
Roopal08
Can <se6astian>, <RexOrCine[m]> also review my proposal
18:19
RexOrCine[m]
That means we lost those two votes - https://twitter.com/apertususer/status/848584997388812289 settle down man.
18:23
BAndiT1983
Roopal08: you were too fast, i was just typing some reply to my own comment, but you've resolved it so it's gone :)
18:23
Roopal08
Oh. Sorry .
18:23
BAndiT1983
i just wanted to say, that i will add OCProcess module as soon as we get some answer from Google about GSoC
18:23
BAndiT1983
no problem
18:23
Roopal08
oh.
18:24
intracube
RexOrCine[m]: ok, no worries
18:24
se6astian
Roopal08: sure, will take a look
18:24
Roopal08
So i need not add it in my deliverables ?
18:25
BAndiT1983
no, OCProcess will be provided by me, according to your needs, OC has basic framework for UIs, so it's a good thing to see what's required
18:26
BAndiT1983
i think i will add some feature which allows to create panels with parameters, ike rawtherapee and darktable do
18:26
BAndiT1983
just as example -> https://screenshots.debian.net/screenshots/000/009/564/large.png
18:27
Roopal08
ok. I will just integrate my modules with OCProcess
18:28
BAndiT1983
this would be already a big task, so don't worry, you won't have stall time
18:29
BAndiT1983
but you can still adjust the UI if there is something not fitting the needs
18:29
intracube
RexOrCine[m]: I didn't realise edits would reset
18:30
intracube
what were the two early votes for?
18:30
BAndiT1983
i will just provide the framework, so you can accomplish the job
18:34
RexOrCine[m]
Nah you can't edit them mate. This is a long standing issue actually because its been being demanded for years. I suppose Twitter is about trapping someone's thoughts from a specific moment, and it wouldn't be as solid if people were running around editing what they've said.
18:35
RexOrCine[m]
If we take one vote for "essential" off its total it'll be 100% accurate.
18:36
intracube
erf, should've left the original then :)
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BAndiT1983
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BAndiT1983|away
nope, BAndiT1983 still here
18:36
intracube
and that one vote for essential was mine
18:37
BAndiT1983|away
no post-factic? ;)
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18:39
Roopal08
<BAndiT1983|away>, Do i need to add implementation details in my proposal ?
18:39
BAndiT1983|away
don't think so, this is all part of active phase
18:40
RexOrCine[m]
Ahh
18:40
BAndiT1983|away
the proposal looks good overall
18:41
Roopal08
Thanks :) . Anything else I can improve upon ?
18:42
BAndiT1983|away
se6astian is the right one to ask, he learned the GSoC rules by heart ;)
18:42
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18:44
BAndiT1983|away
Roopal08: somehow i've missed a reply to my comment about your graphics card, will you use one in the CPU or dedicated one?
18:45
Roopal08
I will use the one in the CPU
18:45
Roopal08
Do i need a better one ?
18:46
BAndiT1983|away
possibly not, if something won't work as expected then i can counter-check it on my PC
18:46
Roopal08
<se6astian> Do I need to add implementation details in my proposal ? And anything else needed to improve my proposal?
18:47
Roopal08
<BAndiT1983|away> Ok.
18:47
se6astian
implementation details are definitely a good addition
18:48
BAndiT1983|away
what are implementation details for you?
18:48
RexOrCine[m]
https://youtu.be/G2aA8n6suKY
18:49
BAndiT1983|away
reminds me of "The Lawnmower Man"
18:49
Roopal08
By implementation details i mean the research papers , which I will follow for learning the algorithms
18:50
Roopal08
Green Edge Directed Demosaicing Algorithm : http://www.academia.edu/18351844/Green_Edge_Directed_Demosaicing_Algorithm Efficient, high-quality Bayer demosaic filtering on GPUs : http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/BayerJGT09/
18:50
Roopal08
and similar to them for rest
18:50
BAndiT1983|away
ah, that things, yes, definitely, my impression was something about internal classes
18:51
Roopal08
Sure.
18:51
Roopal08
Will add them soon
18:51
BAndiT1983|away
SHOODAK is special case, we have to gather the info afterwards, i just have 1 or 2 files from the creator of it
18:51
BAndiT1983|away
this one is also important -> http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/BayerJGT09/
18:53
Roopal08
Thanks. Will add it
18:58
se6astian
Roopal08: one more suggestion: please put emphasis on the actual deliverables in the schedule
18:59
se6astian
like "Code the algorithm" -> deliverable "name" code pushed to github repo
18:59
se6astian
or similar
19:00
se6astian
so it is clear what steps in the tasks actually produce quantifiable output
19:00
Roopal08
Okay
19:03
usmankhan
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19:03
usmankhan
Hello!
19:04
Bertl_oO
hey usmankhan!
19:05
usmankhan
Hey Bertl, I have updated my proposal a bit: https://github.com/usmanwardag/gsoc17_proposal/blob/master/proposal.pdf
19:06
usmankhan
@sebastian, would you mind taking a look at my proposal too please? To see if I am missing on anything?
19:08
usmankhan
I am still working on refining the language. If anyone can review my proposal for that, I would really appreciate it.
19:09
Bertl_oO
2.3 s/the sensors/the switchers/ ?
19:13
usmankhan
I will correct that
19:14
Bertl_oO
everything else looks fine for me
19:14
usmankhan
Ok great, I will see if I can further refine it till tomorrow's deadline
19:15
Bertl_oO
great!
19:16
Bertl_oO
off for a nap ... bbl
19:16
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
19:17
Roopal08
<se6astian> I have updated the proposal with all the changes you suggested. If possible can you go through it once again.
19:17
se6astian
will do
19:19
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19:22
se6astian
Roopal08: what I meant was to clearly separate the deliverables from the rest
19:22
se6astian
color code, symbol
19:22
se6astian
extra coloumn
19:22
se6astian
whatever you find suitable
19:23
Roopal08
oh . ok
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21:52
se6astian
good night
21:53
se6astian
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