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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2020/03/02

Timezone: UTC


05:42
comradekingu
left the channel
05:45
comradekingu
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05:54
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
06:00
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
07:49
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
07:49
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
11:02
comradekingu
left the channel
14:20
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
14:20
Bertl
morning folks!
14:30
se6ast1an
good day
15:23
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
15:27
comradekingu
joined the channel
16:18
se6ast1an
there is a new OS EDA apparently, maybe worth checking out: https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon
16:18
se6ast1an
just read about it in here: http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/week-recap-2-march-2020
16:19
Bertl
interesting
16:42
vup
yeah i have played with horizon a bit, it feels quite nice, but haven't done any bigger projects with it
16:43
vup
we are planning to use it for the rev3 of the micro
16:43
Bertl
good to know ... well, have to check it out myself, but it looks nice
16:43
Bertl
I see a few problems though, like for example Eagle import and the small maintainer base
16:44
Bertl
(but won't keep me from giving it a try :)
16:49
vup
yeah the missing eagle import is unfortunate, so for apertus related stuff it is probably only interesting for completely new boards
16:49
Fabian
joined the channel
16:52
se6ast1an
meeting in 8 minutes
16:52
se6ast1an
great to see you here for the meeting Fabian
16:54
Fabian
Hi!
17:01
se6ast1an
meeting time!
17:01
se6ast1an
who is present?
17:02
BAndiT1983
am here
17:03
vup
is present
17:03
se6ast1an
great
17:03
se6ast1an
fabian as our first time guest would you like to go first?
17:03
Bertl
is here as well
17:04
Fabian
Sure, hello everyone!
17:05
Fabian
I met with Sebastian last week, because I would like to continue a project of mine in order to design a Stereoscopic Beamsplitter Rig for the AXIOM
17:05
Fabian
I set up a page in the Wiki for an overview
17:06
Fabian
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/AXIOM_Stereo
17:06
Fabian
I really admire the work that you guys are doing and I would really enjoy joining your team with this project!
17:07
Bertl
what's the advantage of a beam-splitter setup?
17:07
Fabian
The main advantage is that one can have very small interaxial (distance between eyes)
17:07
Fabian
for macroscopic shooting
17:08
Bertl
what distances do you usually use for that?
17:09
se6ast1an
with bigger lenses it can even get a problem to get "normal" human interoccular distance without a beamsplitter rig
17:09
Fabian
usually between 60-65 mm but I'm especially interested in smaller distances, in order to increase spatial depth in small scales
17:09
Bertl
se6ast1an: ah yes, good point
17:10
Bertl
you can also align the cameras almost perfectly with this design I presume?
17:11
se6ast1an
thats the idea yes, lots of knobs and set screws
17:11
se6ast1an
so it might also be interesting for other (non stereo3d) applications
17:11
Bertl
but you only get half of the light
17:11
Fabian
Usually yes, the 'positioning stage' plays a crucial role in this
17:11
se6ast1an
HDR, multispectral, etc.
17:12
Bertl
well, you do not lose it, you get only half of the light for each camera :)
17:12
Bertl
anyway, interesting stuff!
17:12
Fabian
With the right mirror yes :)
17:13
se6ast1an
now with the wiki page created and a name set what would be the next step fabian?
17:13
Fabian
I would propose to continue in two directions:
17:14
Fabian
one to do research about similar setups, what to learn from them, what to keep, what maybe is not perfectly necessary, what could be added?
17:15
Fabian
two to start constructing a possible setup in 3d, going more indepth what would be necessary in order to build it (moving parts etc.) plus thinking about software interface and connection issues (timelock, calibration etc.)
17:16
se6ast1an
to give an insight into what the others are doing here are some imrepssions: http://www.3drig.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/3D-rig_foto_Magyari_Zsolt_03.jpg
17:16
se6ast1an
https://www.provideocoalition.com/wp-content/uploads/content-uploads/Quasar-Sony-Broadcast.jpg
17:17
se6ast1an
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/kaufman_debra/Flying-Monsters-3D/assets/DSC_0798.jpg
17:18
Fabian
I also made a collection of references, it would be really great to get hands on one or two of these in order to fully grasp their essentials.
17:19
se6ast1an
agreed, we should see what we can arrange in vienna
17:19
se6ast1an
I will ask around a bit
17:20
Fabian
Great, thanks! I will also try to find out more.
17:21
se6ast1an
maybe it would be good to also add the "next steps" to the wiki page?
17:21
Fabian
good idea
17:21
se6ast1an
anything else to add for that topic Fabian?
17:22
Fabian
No Thanks, I will report back next time!
17:22
Bertl
one thing which comes into my mind here is that under some conditions the 'mirror' can split based on the wavelengths
17:22
Bertl
like for example if you combine thermal vision with normal imaging
17:23
Fabian
Is that what Sebastian mentioned as multispectral?
17:23
Bertl
in this case, a simple sheet of glass would reflect the infrared, but let the normal light pass through
17:23
niemand
joined the channel
17:23
se6ast1an
you mean a special kind of mirror to increase light output hitting each sensor?
17:24
Bertl
I'm pretty sure there are interference mirrors which do similar based on the visible wavelength
17:24
se6ast1an
sounds good
17:24
Fabian
This way one could maybe combine different sensors right? (Image, Infrared, Thermal etc.)
17:25
Bertl
yes, that's the idea here :)
17:25
Fabian
Sounds good!
17:25
Bertl
anyway, cool stuff, thanks for sharing!
17:25
Fabian
Thank you for the input!
17:26
se6ast1an
ok who wants to go next?
17:26
se6ast1an
Bertl ?
17:26
Bertl
I'm fine, nobody else has anything to report? :)
17:27
Bertl
okay, then here is my update on the new ABCP power board
17:29
Bertl
as you all know, we received PCBs some time ago, but unfortunately they had oversized drill hits so we couldn't use them to assemble a new power board
17:30
Bertl
fortunately we could fix up one board so that it could be used for preliminary testing
17:30
Bertl
here is a picture of that: http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/abcp_pb.jpg
17:31
Bertl
I spent most of last week getting the PIC up and running so that we can test the performance of the newly added switchers as well as the planned new features
17:33
Bertl
the firmware now acts as I2C slave and allows to monitor stats of the power controller system which looks like this:
17:33
Bertl
https://pastebin.com/raw/u1ULwymc
17:34
Bertl
I've done some testing already and while there were some minor changes necessary, the overall performance looks quite good
17:35
Bertl
the buck converters work fine from 6.0V to 17.0V and keep a reasonably stable output at up to 3A
17:35
Bertl
the power control system itself when operating at full speed currently consumes about 3.7mA
17:36
Bertl
and preliminary testing in power down mode reduces this to about 670uA
17:37
Bertl
temperature measurements done by the PIC indicate that at maximum load we have a thermal issue without cooling (i.e. without moving air)
17:37
Bertl
currently working on actual measurements with thermal imaging
17:38
Bertl
but under 'normal' load the regulators are quite fine even without cooling
17:38
se6ast1an
will airflow alone be sufficient you think or do we need a heatsink on any component?
17:39
Bertl
I think normal airflow will be sufficient, but we should know soon (i.e. next few days)
17:39
se6ast1an
right
17:39
Bertl
a heat sink unfortunately wouldn't really be an option here
17:39
Bertl
in case we hit the thermal limit, we need to provide some heat bridge from the PCB or use a special PCB
17:40
Bertl
(more copper or aluminum core)
17:40
se6ast1an
noted
17:40
Bertl
but I'm quite optimistic that normal air flow should suffice
17:41
Bertl
I also received the updated PCBs from OSHpark today, so I will start building a complete power board this week
17:41
se6ast1an
great!
17:42
Bertl
we haven't received the Remote PCBs though, but I'm also optimistic that they will arrive soon
17:43
Bertl
I guess that's it from my side for this week ...
17:43
se6ast1an
thanks!
17:43
se6ast1an
vup/anuejn anything from your side?
17:44
vup
not that much user visible from me, but I continued working on the control daemon
17:44
vup
some first results can be seen here https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/nctrl/pull/3 (very technical)
17:45
vup
while working on the control daemon I also uncovered some long standing bugs, which is always nice
17:45
vup
thats it from me this week
17:45
se6ast1an
great, a question that was also raised at fosdem: can we support cheaper wifi sticks for the camera accesspoint?
17:46
vup
afaict the camera accesspoint should work with any wifi stick as long as it is supported by the normal linux kernel
17:46
vup
(that include nonfree wifi sticks that need firmware, atleast for now)
17:47
Bertl
note that cheap often means low quality as well
17:47
Bertl
not sure you want to bother with a cheap wifi stick saving 50 bucks on a 4k camera :)
17:48
se6ast1an
I think its more an issue of availability, the thinkpenguin one we currently use is only available from the USA afaik
17:48
Bertl
but I got a bunch of reasonably priced 5GHz USB wifi dongles (from amazon) which I plan to test in the near future
17:48
se6ast1an
great!
17:49
se6ast1an
thanks vup!
17:49
se6ast1an
BAndiT1983 any news from your side?
17:50
BAndiT1983
not really, waiting for challenge tsk completions, this year the task is from real software and not artificial, so naturally some problems arise here and there
17:50
se6ast1an
right, thanks
17:50
BAndiT1983
but now i've finally time to do some programming, to know beforehand what happens
17:50
se6ast1an
very good :)
17:51
se6ast1an
quick updates from me in the meantime:
17:51
se6ast1an
new 12V fans have been installed at the remote beta setup at our office for the zbox (currently with Bertl) and maybe partial beta remote hardware
17:52
se6ast1an
the FFD measurement tests are ongoing with one method with a USB microscope and our Tormach CNC mill were conducted last Thursday, here are some pictures: https://cloud.apertus.org/index.php/apps/gallery/s/CnMyQfJNCefZLPT
17:53
se6ast1an
the limit here is the ability to really tell when a surface is in focus (easier with the image sensor pixels - harder with a shiny metal surface)
17:54
se6ast1an
but we seem to get repeatable results in the range of 0.01 - 0.03mm accuracy
17:55
se6ast1an
to have a wide selection of 12V fans to soon hook up to the power board prototype I started collecting sources/models, we have 3 at the office already but will order a bunch more soon
17:56
se6ast1an
the UV/IR filters we have currently need to be cut to size to be used in the filter holder metal part, as most people advised against trying to cut them myself I will see if I can get a local galzier to do it for me
17:56
se6ast1an
or optician
17:57
se6ast1an
the offset of the index pin in the lens mount assembly I discovered (I think I wrote about it last week) was my mistake as one drawing was not updated before ordering parts
17:57
se6ast1an
manfred will will the 1mm moved holes for me and parts are already packed to go to him soon
17:58
Bertl
.o( looks like he has a strong will :)
17:58
se6ast1an
https://wiki.apertus.org/images/f/fc/CP_enclosure_optical_Path_V2.jpg on the wiki was updated after the ffd measurements
17:59
se6ast1an
also designed another measurement "platform" that will have an emount counterpart on one side and Bertls hardware on the other side: https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29b88c0/g/shares/SH56a43QTfd62c1cd96886d49da9fb9e9e37
17:59
Bertl
@metal surface (hard to focus on) .. should be easy to change that with a marker, no?
18:00
se6ast1an
correct, or by breathing on it :)
18:00
BAndiT1983
autodesk?
18:01
BAndiT1983
have you switched to fusion?
18:01
se6ast1an
we want to have more custom packaging and until the ultimate solution is ready I was thinking of spraying some axiom logos on simple cardboard boxes: https://cloud.apertus.org/index.php/apps/gallery/s/SbcwYdXa2njoR9p
18:01
se6ast1an
metal stencil and airbrush are currently the favourites it seems
18:02
se6ast1an
BAndiT1983: manfred is using fusion for the CAM part for some time, since he will mill this most likely I thought I take a bit of work off his shoulders and create the part there already
18:03
se6ast1an
thats it from my side, lastely I wanted to throw the question into the ring if and how we could/should advertise GSoC at local universities or how to reach more students?
18:03
BAndiT1983
fusion360 is also my main tool for 3d printing, as freecad is difficult most times, was just wondering, as you use onshape usually
18:05
Bertl
probably cad data exchange is not that simple either ...
18:05
se6ast1an
vup/anuejn any ideas how we could reach your edu communities?
18:06
BAndiT1983
se6ast1an: gsoc needs more prominent presentation on the apertus page
18:06
BAndiT1983
at least while it's on
18:06
se6ast1an
good idea
18:07
se6ast1an
well lets continue thinking about it, maybe there are more things we can do
18:08
se6ast1an
anyone else with topics to share/discuss?
18:08
vup
hmm good question, things like hiwi jobs are usually put on bulletin boards in the mensa / various faculties, but that is of course very local
18:09
se6ast1an
well it would be a start
18:10
se6ast1an
meeting concluded!
18:10
se6ast1an
heading off to the supermarket
18:10
Bertl
probably a job for PR ... contact universities and similar to get flyers out there ...
18:11
Bertl
quick, to the supermarket! :)
18:11
Fabian
Have a nice evening!
18:11
Bertl
feel free to hang around, btw :)
18:12
Bertl
(although you want to get a real IRC client for that instead of the webchat)
18:48
gsalazar
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19:15
gsalazar
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19:15
Fabian
left the channel
19:30
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
19:30
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
19:32
metal_dent[m]
BAndiT1983: Hi, are we using linux framebuffer for drawing?
19:35
BAndiT1983
hi metal_dent[m]
19:35
BAndiT1983
what is linux framebuffer?
19:37
metal_dent[m]
it is something which shows graphics on the linux console (i was searching for tools for drawing and stumbled upon this)
19:39
BAndiT1983
have never used it, as far as i remember, what would you use it for?
19:44
metal_dent[m]
i also haven't used it but afaik some applications are drawing images on the console (like when you open some software on command line and there are images (logos and stuff) on the welcome page)
19:47
BAndiT1983
can't remember any instantly, do you have examples?
19:48
BAndiT1983
there are multiple ways in linux to draw, so don't know them all
19:49
metal_dent[m]
> can't remember any instantly, do you have examples?
19:49
metal_dent[m]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_framebuffer
19:49
BAndiT1983
but visualizer is using SDL2 and opengl, latter one because imgui requires it
19:51
BAndiT1983
to emualte the framebuffer of the display on the board, there is a texture which receives the pixel array
19:51
BAndiT1983
then the texture is drawn at certain position in imgui
19:53
metal_dent[m]
okay
19:59
BAndiT1983
you've mentioned tools for drawing, which kind of tools do you mean?
20:00
metal_dent[m]
not exactly tools, I was just looking for ways to draw an image pixel by pixel (as we've to read value from the header file and assign gray colour or no colour for the text part and orange for the ring)
20:04
BAndiT1983
all the things you need are already there, visualizer emulates the hardware a bit and firmware handles painting
20:05
BAndiT1983
you have the data, it needs to be placed in firmware, then DrawIcon() is required, main method is DrawPixel(), which should be called with right parameters
20:06
metal_dent[m]
> you have the data, it needs to be placed in firmware, then DrawIcon() is required, main method is DrawPixel(), which should be called with right parameters
20:06
metal_dent[m]
yes, about DrawPixel() : there is a ToDo in DrawImage about that
20:06
BAndiT1983
?
20:07
metal_dent[m]
so should I implement DrawPixel() in DrawImage() too or only focus on about the DrawIcon() part?
20:07
BAndiT1983
you can also replace the framebuffer assignment with DrawPixel(), to check if the logo on the main page still draws correctly
20:08
metal_dent[m]
okay
20:09
BAndiT1983
if you verify DrawIcon, then just draw over the current logo and check if position is right
20:09
BAndiT1983
*if you want to
20:09
metal_dent[m]
btw are we supposed to finish the qualification task before the gsoc application starts?
20:10
BAndiT1983
it would be preferable, as we have to inspect the code also, final result is important, but also coding style and formatting
20:11
metal_dent[m]
for coding style, proper comments are required?
20:11
BAndiT1983
but there are still 14 days till then, more than enough time, as the task only requires not more than 2-3 days
20:12
BAndiT1983
comments are mostly required for some special cases, no need to comment good readable code
20:13
metal_dent[m]
okay, cool!
21:20
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
21:21
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
21:29
Fabian
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Fabian
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22:19
niemand
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BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away