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10:19 | dmj_nova | se6astian: thanks for sharing that axiom research doc
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10:20 | dmj_nova | Looking at the Blackmagic, I suspect that a thorough consideration for ergonomics would set us apart from them.
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11:08 | se6astian | dmj_nova, the doc was not written by me, yes ergonomics should get some priority
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11:09 | dmj_nova | se6astian: I know it wasn't you, but looking at it did remind me
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11:09 | dmj_nova | that ergonomics is a key part of why DSLRs do well
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11:10 | dmj_nova | and it's a weird thing that blackmagic does, not having the device fit well hands/be usable without looking at the screen
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11:11 | dmj_nova | same sort of form over function thing that Apple likes to do
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11:11 | se6astian | true, but the specs just sell their product, even if they make it in the most akward ways ;)
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11:12 | se6astian | can you take a look at https://www.apertus.org/sharing-creation-attitude please
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11:12 | dmj_nova | sure
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11:12 | se6astian | a friend of mine said that the text is very hard to follow because its interrupted by the images all the time
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11:13 | se6astian | he does like the 3 coloumn text layout, but thinks the interruptions of videos/images are a problem
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11:13 | se6astian | do you think so as well? because I think the images and videos and those interruptions are what makes it so nice ;)
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11:15 | dmj_nova | it does look quite pretty
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11:15 | dmj_nova | At the same time I can see what he's talking about
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11:18 | dmj_nova | too many breaking points in the text
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11:18 | dmj_nova | and many things pushed together
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11:19 | se6astian | do you think a solution would be to group the images and text blocks together more
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11:19 | se6astian | instead of text - image - text - video we do: text - text - image - video
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11:19 | dmj_nova | what size screen are you viewing on?
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11:20 | se6astian | 22"
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11:20 | dmj_nova | resolution?
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11:21 | se6astian | 1680x1050
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11:21 | dmj_nova | More vertical resolution definitely helps with this one
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11:22 | dmj_nova | it makes the flow more coherent
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11:22 | dmj_nova | on my 1920x1200 screen the document feels like it flows better than on my 1366x768 one
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11:29 | se6astian | !ping
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11:30 | se6astian | damn internet connection
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11:30 | se6astian | I hope its just my ISP
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11:30 | se6astian | doe apertus.org work for you?
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11:42 | se6astian | seems like the godaddy nameservers are down!
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11:44 | se6astian | actually I can ping them but they dont seem to do what they are supposed to
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11:46 | dmj_nova | !pong
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11:46 | dmj_nova | se6astian: works for me
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11:46 | se6astian | hmm, good
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11:47 | se6astian | I guess I will just wait a bit and hope the problem solves itself
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11:55 | dmj_nova | ugh, I should sleep
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11:58 | se6astian | ok, please do ;)
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13:30 | se6astian | Bertl, are you around currently?
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14:19 | Bertl | good morning everyone!
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14:20 | Bertl | se6astian: I am now :)
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16:10 | Bertl | I've uploaded two more examples, one implementing a primitive register file via gpio and another connecting the hdmi i2c for use from linux
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16:10 | Bertl | http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/reg_file_gpio/
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16:10 | Bertl | http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/hdmi_i2c/
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16:12 | Bertl | the scripts (in hdmi_i2c) can be used to basically configure the hdmi transmitter to a point where e.g. EDID info can be retrieved
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16:12 | Bertl | there is also an info script which shows various registers and bits
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16:17 | Bertl | as usual, let me know if you have any problems with the setup or any suggestions/improvements on the code!
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17:13 | se6astian | Hello!
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17:14 | se6astian | thats great!
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17:14 | se6astian | I was hoping you could help me something stuart recommended with the PCB
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17:15 | se6astian | 1. I see a could sensor pins that you use one via to attach to two sensor pins. These need to be separate vias to reduce inductance and lower resistance to the power plane.
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17:15 | Bertl | parse errror, please rephrase :)
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17:16 | se6astian | thats what he wrote ;)
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17:16 | se6astian | I replied: In some areas this is impossible to do, does it help if I connect ground pins together and make several vias like in this image?
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17:16 | se6astian | http://picpaste.com/gnd-good-or-bad-mwsEPLxA.jpg
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17:16 | se6astian | and to that Stuart replied: - Better, but the top layer copper pour that's attached to ground will likely take care of alot of this. You might be able to remove the traces in favor of the lower impedance thermal ties to the ground pour. Keep in mind that you want thermal ties to ground for component pins on the top/bottom layer, NOT a completely surrounding connection. The solder process
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17:16 | se6astian | will only work properly with thermal ties.
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17:17 | se6astian | I don't really know what that means now ;)
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17:17 | Bertl | okay, what am I seeing in that picture?
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17:18 | Bertl | what are the blue dots?
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17:18 | se6astian | stuarts original comment was about me connecting several sensor pins that are supposed to be grounded together with a single via to the ground plane
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17:18 | se6astian | I think he suggested to make one GND via for each sensor pin
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17:18 | Bertl | ah, okay, that's a bad ide
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17:18 | Bertl | *idea
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17:19 | se6astian | so I did that everywhere I could
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17:19 | Bertl | you basically want as many direct connections to the ground plane as possible
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17:19 | Bertl | but you want to avoid strange loops and runs
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17:19 | se6astian | but in the area as seen in the image there isnt enough space, so I wanted to know if its better to do it that way (with several vias spread around and the actual pins also connected together)
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17:20 | se6astian | the blue dots are the sensor pins supposed to go to GND
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17:20 | Bertl | why are they so tiny?
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17:20 | Bertl | i.e. how is the socket? supposed to connect there?
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17:21 | Bertl | or are the vias huge?
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17:22 | Bertl | and what do the red squares mean?
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17:22 | se6astian | the socket pins are rather small SMT
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17:22 | se6astian | the red squares are the edge points of the traces when you draw them
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17:22 | Bertl | well, they look like half the size of a via on that picture
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17:23 | Bertl | less than half the diameter actually
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17:23 | se6astian | they are rather tiny
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17:23 | Bertl | assuming that your vias are what 0.6mm 0.4mm that would suggest 0.3 or 0.2mm pads
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17:23 | se6astian | not sure if they are supposed to be that small though ;)
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17:23 | Bertl | you can never ever solder onto 0.2mm pads
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17:23 | se6astian | let me check the andon datasheet
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17:24 | se6astian | andon replied by the way :)
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17:24 | se6astian | "we have over 5000 products and cannot provide a single pricelist"
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17:24 | se6astian | so I sent them the part numbers again I originally inquired for
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17:24 | Bertl | hehe
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17:27 | se6astian | normal SMT pins: 0.30mm
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17:27 | se6astian | rollerball socket: 0.47mm
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17:28 | Bertl | what is the size of your vias? drill and surrounding?
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17:30 | se6astian | 0.026" via, 0.008" hole
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17:31 | se6astian | its the smallest via available in expresspcb
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17:31 | Bertl | hmm, yeah, 0.2mm drill and 0.66mm pad
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17:32 | Bertl | but I'd definitely make the smd pads at least 0.5 as well
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17:32 | Bertl | is there no footprint available for the sockets?
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17:33 | se6astian | no, stuart built a custom part
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17:35 | Bertl | you have the CMOSIS-ANDON 'data sheet' at hand, yes?
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17:35 | se6astian | yes
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17:35 | se6astian | email?
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17:35 | Bertl | no, I have it, just look at it
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17:36 | Bertl | the -414T4 on the right (middle of the page)
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17:36 | Bertl | shows a 0.30mm pad where the socket lands
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17:36 | Bertl | but, directly below you see how the socket is soldered
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17:37 | Bertl | as you can see there, the solder will roughly fill up to 0.80mm (diameter)
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17:37 | Bertl | there is no chance in hell to get a reliable contact with a 0.30mm diameter footprint
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17:37 | se6astian | I am not sure if the "Mounting Options" box at the right isn't just a general example
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17:38 | se6astian | not specific to any type of pins
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17:38 | Bertl | yes, of course, but that is how it really looks like
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17:39 | se6astian | but what happens to the spike of the pin, in the mounting options box it looks like it melted away ;)
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17:41 | Bertl | http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff142/Stocky6409/PICAXE/IMG_0688.jpg
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17:41 | Bertl | here you see how solder, pads and pins relate in SMD
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17:42 | Bertl | now consider what would happen when the pad below the pin was just the size of the pin
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17:42 | se6astian | Ah I see what you mean
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17:42 | Bertl | the only case where the pad is of equal size is with BGA
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17:43 | se6astian | and stuart also refered to Thermal pads
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17:43 | Bertl | where you basically mount the pins on solder balls
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17:43 | se6astian | in expresspcb that is a via option, creates a cross like non copper area in the pad
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17:43 | Bertl | yes, those are thermal
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17:44 | Bertl | you use them to reduce heat propagation
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17:45 | se6astian | ok, will use those instead for the socket
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17:46 | se6astian | and which diameter?
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17:46 | Bertl | personally I'd strongly consider using the thru-hole sockets for the adapter, not will they be a lot simpler to solder on, but they also 'require' sane connections
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17:46 | Bertl | no, you don't want thermals on the sensor pads
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17:46 | Bertl | that is complete nonsense :)
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17:47 | Bertl | s/not/not only/
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17:48 | Bertl | so all in all, you don't need as many vias (because you already have the holes)
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17:48 | se6astian | good point
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17:48 | se6astian | I dont mind using the throughhole version
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17:48 | se6astian | the price is the same
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17:49 | se6astian | and there is still space between PCB and socket as I placed a few SMD parts there
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17:50 | Bertl | how do you know that the SMD parts do not interfere with the socket?
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17:50 | Bertl | that's one major missing information on my side (i.e. how does the socket actually look like)
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17:50 | Bertl | we have the size, and the pins, but beyond that, all I see is a rectangular area
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17:51 | se6astian | according to the datasheet there are 3mm between PCB surface and the socket
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17:51 | se6astian | the SMD parts are 0.8mm tall if I remember correctly
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17:52 | Bertl | yeah, but I don't see any information about the actual socket frame
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17:52 | Bertl | it could be that while the pins have 2.8mm space, the frame directly touches the pcb
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17:53 | Bertl | and that could happen everywhere inside the rectangular area
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17:53 | Bertl | after all, something is holding those pins in place
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17:54 | se6astian | take a look at CMOSIS 06-21-2012.pdf
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17:54 | Bertl | how this something looks like, I have no idea ...
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17:54 | Bertl | I don't have that one
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17:54 | se6astian | I emailed it to you on June 20th
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17:54 | Bertl | hmm, okay, sec
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17:55 | Bertl | indeed, sec
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17:58 | Bertl | well, when I read that datasheet (thanks by the way) correctly, you have exacly 0.68mm space between socket and pcb, in the areas where the socket is present
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17:59 | Bertl | now the question is, with the window marked 'optional', what does that mean?
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18:00 | Bertl | I would prefer to get sockets with that window present
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18:00 | se6astian | to my understanding that there are 2 products to order (with/without window)
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18:00 | Bertl | (otherwise you won't be able to reach/cool the cmv)
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18:01 | Bertl | but you can definitely forget about soldering parts near the socket pins
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18:01 | Bertl | but IMHO there is no reason for doing that either
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18:03 | se6astian | at first I had most of the capacitors in the socket area on the back of the PCB, but Stuart recommended to move them to the front to reduce via inductance
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18:04 | Bertl | thru-hole => front/back is the same
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18:05 | se6astian | true
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18:05 | se6astian | ok, so to summarize my todo:
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18:06 | se6astian | -) change image socket pads to bigger pads
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18:06 | se6astian | -) make them through holes
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18:06 | se6astian | -) move caps to back side
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