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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2019/03/01

Timezone: UTC


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Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl_oO
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Bertl_zZ
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11:38
Bertl
morning folks!
11:47
se6astian
good day!
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samellos
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14:18
samellos
hello from Italy!!!
14:20
se6astian
hi samuel!
14:21
se6astian
that was quick
14:21
se6astian
welcome to our IRC channel
14:23
se6astian
your product has the coolest name I ever encountered :)
14:27
se6astian
so what did you want to discuss?
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samellos
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samellos
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14:29
samellos
opsss
14:29
samellos
sorry
14:29
se6astian
no problem :)
14:29
samellos
I'm Here
14:29
se6astian
in case you lost my lines:
14:29
se6astian
(3:20:59 PM) sebastian: hi samuel!
14:29
se6astian
(3:21:02 PM) sebastian: that was quick
14:29
se6astian
(3:21:14 PM) sebastian: welcome to our IRC channel
14:29
se6astian
(3:23:26 PM) sebastian: your product has the coolest name I ever encountered :)
14:29
se6astian
(3:27:54 PM) sebastian: so what did you want to discuss?
14:29
samellos
I'm back...:-)
14:29
se6astian
haha!
14:30
samellos
haha
14:30
samellos
I'm crazy men
14:30
se6astian
did you leave just so you could make that joke ? :P
14:30
samellos
yes.......
14:30
se6astian
very good
14:31
samellos
I wonder if it might interest you to help me perform a digital back with the use of the hardware and software of voices. What do you think? Can it be feasible? I'm about to do an upgrade and I'd like to produce something for a more demanding audience, but I lack the hardware and software. How to apply it in the cameras, I know ...
14:31
se6astian
voices?
14:33
samellos
hahah...google
14:33
samellos
I wonder if it might interest you to help me perform a digital back with the use of your hardware and software.
14:33
se6astian
ah, right
14:33
se6astian
currently you are using a rather small image sensor I assume ?
14:33
samellos
its possible?
14:34
se6astian
and you are thinking about adapting the hardware for a larger one now correct?
14:34
samellos
yessss...gopro sensor
14:34
se6astian
right
14:34
Bertl
Panasonic 34120
14:34
samellos
yes
14:34
samellos
same a sony imx 078
14:35
se6astian
the AXIOM Beta is basically a digital small film (35mm - rotated upwards) digital back if you remove the lens mount parts
14:35
samellos
but the dream of millions of users on this planet is a back with a fulfillrame behind ...
14:35
Bertl
what do you pay for the sensor and how many NDAs did you have to sign? (just curious :)
14:36
se6astian
cmosis/ams also have a real full frame sensor with 20 or 50 Megapixels (rather expensive though)
14:36
samellos
nothing...pcb (complet and sensor) 50 us$
14:36
Bertl
nice
14:37
Bertl
is there a comprehensive datasheet available for the 34120?
14:38
samellos
but is there a middle way as a quality price? For example, the APS-C sensor that used the NEX 5, for example ... how much does a fulfillment sensor (the cheapest ... is that?)?
14:38
Bertl
I can only find the product brief (did a quick search)
14:38
se6astian
we have no prices from sony, also not sure if they are selling their APS-C sized sensors at all
14:39
se6astian
here is an overview of what we have collected so far: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Image_Sensor_Table
14:39
samellos
ok
14:41
se6astian
companies that design and manufactre their own image sensors like canon/sony for their own camera products typically don't sell them
14:42
se6astian
sony is selling some sensors (smaller ones typically) but they are rather hard to access/get in touch with
14:42
se6astian
and probably not interested unless you buy in large quantities anyway
14:43
se6astian
nikon DSLRs for example uses Sony sensors
14:44
samellos
but what about the your PCB, the price and the fact that you personally manufacture each one? For if I wanted (and could) use it, modify it to fit in my device, how much would the diagram cost, or did I have to get all of your voice tags? Can I have the electronic diagram and the datasheet of the board? How much would it cost me? Could you with the help of some engineer of yours make the necessary changes to adapt it to my project
14:46
Bertl
The AXIOM Beta is FOSS/OH
14:46
Bertl
i.e. it is open source software and open hardware
14:46
Bertl
all diagrams, schematics, code, etc is freely available
14:47
samellos
If I could buy a lot, the sensors, you could help me in my project, which we could sign I'm Back apertus ... eheheeh
14:47
Bertl
and yes, we probably could adapt the AXIOM technology for your project
14:48
samellos
But explain to me, can I use your diagrams and produce something that will be marketed?
14:48
se6astian
sure
14:49
samellos
its amazing!
14:49
Bertl
as long as you adhere to the various licenses there is no problem with modifications and selling products
14:49
se6astian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8fHgx9mE5U
14:50
samellos
Could you come to Vienna and talk? One of my partners is from the German language.
14:50
se6astian
sure you are very welcome to visit us!
14:50
samellos
fantastic!
14:53
samellos
You believe that it may interest you to support us in this project, I explain better, we are receiving from the whole world a great interest in having a quality digital back home, and what I offer (only 299 francs) is not what I know many but if we could combine quality with this idea, it would be something unique on the planet!
14:56
samellos
We need engineers and people like you who have an incredible vision ... I'm not an engineer but just a designer ... I need to hire an engineer to adapt the design of your board to a different drawing, and I ask, Is there anyone to be able to make us available for this?
14:57
se6astian
we indeed offer customization services of our technology
14:57
se6astian
well I still have many questions - and I am sure you have too but thats probably too much for this first contact today :)
14:58
samellos
eheheh
14:58
samellos
yesssss
14:58
samellos
But, I'm happy for your information
14:58
samellos
last question
15:00
samellos
Is the price of PCB high because of the fact that you make only a few units? Or because the components are expensive?
15:00
se6astian
both
15:01
se6astian
PCB production and assembly cost could be reduced drastically if you increase volume
15:01
se6astian
component prices as well (a bit) but not as drastically
15:03
samellos
If I produced in China ... obviously in a serious company ... do you think I can lower that price?
15:06
Bertl
probably
15:07
se6astian
sure if you do PCB production and assembly in china
15:07
se6astian
but the image sensor prices will still be significant
15:07
se6astian
https://octopart.com/cmv12000-2e5c1pa-ams-75484547?r=sp&s=00BPlXyiQ3GExg3x6FNUfg
15:08
samellos
APS-H ???
15:08
se6astian
no, thats the image sensor we use (APS-C)
15:09
se6astian
this is the cmosis/ams sensor I mentioned earlier with 20 megapixels and full frame diameter: https://octopart.com/cmv20000-1e5c1pa-ams-75484563?r=sp&s=pfMSQX_pT-y3sqd2FTiU4A
15:11
samellos
too expensive...APS-C? I know, its not ideal, but, not expensive
15:12
samellos
this...CMOS On Semiconductor (ex Truesense, ex Kodak) 672 ⬠(Octopart)
15:12
samellos
its a color or monocrome?
15:12
se6astian
the KAC-06040 is 1 inch diameter
15:12
se6astian
so much smaller than APS-C
15:12
samellos
opss
15:14
se6astian
the reason why our project is not really appealing to photographers is that the cost of just the image sensor in our camera alone is already higher than buying a mid range off the shelf DSLR
15:15
Bertl
but that's the price you pay for global shutter and up to 300FPS at full resolution
15:15
se6astian
correct, its great for motion picture
15:15
se6astian
but other sensors with similar diameter arent much cheaper, just worse in performance ...
15:17
samellos
I finally understand what is the most economical sensor available in the market?
15:18
se6astian
the cheapest sensor is basically the smallest one
15:18
se6astian
like the one you are using currently
15:18
samellos
I would even use APS-C but where am I going to find it for sale?
15:22
se6astian
let us know if you find one that is very affordable
15:22
se6astian
we didn't
15:24
se6astian
we even considered buying canon/nikon dslrs and dissassembling them for the image sensor - which is a terrible idea of course but still cheaper than any sensor of that size we could find
15:25
samellos
I understand you .. this idea has already crossed my mind ... eheh
15:29
se6astian
any further questions for today?
15:29
se6astian
otherwise in case you still want to visit us in Vienna that we discuss the date/details via email?
15:31
samellos
ok! Thank you your attention and your time... the big problem its a sensor...but, I talk to my partner and contact you for the possible visit a Vienna
15:31
samellos
How do I get access to the hardware and software of vcs to be able to download (files to be able to edit the board etc) ... is the sensor problem ...
15:34
se6astian
our AXIOM Beta source files for the hardware are organized in the wiki: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/AXIOM_Beta/Camera_Structure
15:35
se6astian
once you select which board and which version/revision you get the files, eg. for the Sensor Board with THT socket: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/AXIOM_Beta_Sensor_CMV12000_THT_V0.16
15:35
se6astian
our software is in general hosted on github in different repositories: https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema
15:44
samellos
Thanks for your information... I'm Back...
15:45
se6astian
you are welcome
15:55
se6astian
gotta go now, before I am back! as well
15:55
se6astian
see you
15:55
se6astian
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15:57
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
15:57
Bertl
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ayushprd
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BAndiT1983|away
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se6astian|away
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17:40
se6astian
I am back!
18:59
danieel
se6astian: which existing camera sensors were considered?
19:04
se6astian
what do you mean exactly?
19:06
danieel
<se6astian> we even considered buying canon/nikon dslrs and dissassembling them for the image sensor - which is a terrible idea of course but still cheaper than any sensor of that size we could find
19:06
se6astian
right, no particular sensor/product, just the approach in general
21:12
anuejn
i thought shortly about the sensor of the 5d mark ii
21:13
anuejn
but at least with the stock adc it is by far not fast enough
21:14
anuejn
the adc could probably be changed, but i never actually tried and i dont know how far the sensor itself can be pushed
21:15
anuejn
and finally all those sensors lack in dynamic range and have unconvenient resolutions
21:15
danieel
well, looking at the figures the FF sensors do run at slower clock than the APSC ones
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BAndiT1983
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BAndiT1983|away
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BAndiT1983
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BAndiT1983|away
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22:09
se6astian
off to bed
22:09
se6astian
good night
22:09
se6astian
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22:40
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl_oO
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BAndiT1983
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